23 January 2002

U.S. Says Libya Must Comply with U.N. Obligations

Libya must comply with U.N. Security Council resolutions regarding its responsibility in the bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988 as a first step to getting its name removed from the list of state sponsors of terrorism, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said at his regular press briefing in Washington January 23.

He stressed that there was no change in the U.S. policy towards Libya, and that the recent meetings held in London between U.S. and British representatives and their Libyan counterparts "doesn't represent any kind of new initiative or shift in our relationship."

Boucher said U.S. officials are in regular contact with Israeli and Palestinian officials to urge them to proceed to implement the Mitchell recommendations for peace and the Tenet security steps.

He said Secretary of State Colin Powell called Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat January 23 to make clear the need for Arafat to provide a full accounting for the Karine A attempted weapons smuggling incident and for Arafat to rein in groups that perpetuate violence.

Boucher said U.S. officials tell Israeli leaders to consider the consequences of their actions and avoid steps that inflame the situation.

Regarding prisoners captured in Afghanistan and held at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo, Cuba, Boucher said the prisoners are being treated humanely and in accordance with international conventions.

Following are excerpts from Boucher's January 23 briefing with his comments related to the Middle East:

Question: Can you respond to reports that the U.S. and Libya are close to a deal on paving the way for Libya to get off the terrorism list?

Mr. Boucher: Let me -- what I need to do, I think, is make clear that people understand where we have been with Libya and where we remain with Libya, and that is to say there's been no change in our policy towards Libya. The United States and the UK have conducted a dialogue with Libya. It doesn't represent any kind of new initiative or shift in our relationship. Libya remains on the list of state sponsors of terrorism. Our April 2001 edition of Patterns of Global Terrorism sets out our views. And as that report explains, Libya's working to improve its public image, but it can best demonstrate its commitment to any change by complying with the remaining U.N. Security Council requirements related to Pan Am 103. And as we all know, Libya has not done that yet.

This has been the focus of our discussions with Libya, and it will remain our focus, regardless of the channel or the interlocutor. Libya must comply with its U.N. Security Council obligations and it must put its terrorist past behind it.

There can be no shortcuts around those obligations, and we continue to call upon Libya to fulfill it.

That's our goal, is to change Libyan behavior, and this is the principal thing that -- shall we saw the first and foremost condition is to comply with U.N. Security Council requirements. But once they do that, then we would address other issues involved of their being on the terrorism list.

......

Question: Middle East? Yesterday when you were asked, you said that the plan would be for Arafat to reign in the violence. Do you have any sort of broader plan that would address Israel as well as the Palestinians? Or, you know, do you have any idea of any movement that you're planning to make to try to stop the cycle of violence right now? Any intervention?

Mr. Boucher: (Laughs.) You make it sound like we don't have a plan. We have a plan. We've had a plan all along, and that's the Mitchell plan and the Tenet security steps. The goal is to get the parties to carry through those steps, and that's the way, the only way that we think right now we can rebuild some kind of confidence and get back to talks. The vision remains that expressed by the secretary and the president in their statements last fall. The plan to get there is to work through the Tenet steps and the Mitchell steps to get back to political discussions. And the way to get started is for Chairman Arafat to rein in the violence and to take steps to account for the arms smuggling and take steps to dismantle the organizations that have been carrying out the violence.

It's quite clear that that's what we intend to do. Our representatives have remained in touch with both sides. The secretary spoke to Chairman Arafat this morning on the telephone and used the call to make clear once again to him the need for accountability over the Karine A. affair and the need to take steps to rein in the groups that perpetrate violence.

Question: The U.S. ambassador in Israel, Kurzner (sic)?

Mr. Boucher: Kurtzer.

Question: Kurtzer -- spoke yesterday, and he gave -- he said that basically it's up to the two sides to make peace. Is that the view of the State Department, that it's not up to the United States to be deeply involved, but it's rather for the two sides to make peace?

Mr. Boucher: It has always been our view that it's for the two parties to make peace, that they need to do this, they need to be able to be able to deal with each other. Ultimately they have to live together in a very small space, and they need to be able to work with each other.

It's always been our view that the security that comes from cooperation between the two sides is much better than anything that one side could hope to achieve on its own. And it's always been our view the U.S. has a very important role that we'll continue to exercise, to try to help the parties deal with each other and try to help the parties achieve what they can together to achieve better lives for both Israelis and Palestinians.

Terri?

Question: Just a couple of weeks ago there were some arrests by Arafat or -- two or three, I believe. Is that the last progress that we've actually seen? Is that the last time that we've seen Arafat name names and actually carry out actions that could be identified as taking responsibility?

Mr. Boucher: I don't quite have an assessment on an ongoing basis. It's -- we're not playing this one in innings or anything like that. We are trying to see effective and sustained action that ends the violence. Since -- there have been arrests. There also have been -- very serious matters come up, like the arms smuggling incident, where we know that there was involvement of Palestinian officials. And there needs to be accountability for that as well.

Question: I'm talking about arrests particularly on the arms smuggling. They had arrested --

Mr. Boucher: On the arms smuggling --

Question: Yeah. Arafat arrested two or three people after that, who were actually --

Mr. Boucher: I think we saw those reports. I'm not sure if I can give you absolute confirmation of any particular arrest, frankly.

Question: Or any since then?

Mr. Boucher: Yeah. As I said, I'm not trying to score this one inning by inning. We're trying to see some real action that stops the violence and accounts for what happened in the arms smuggling, and make sure it won't happen again.

Question: Richard, given the cycle of reciprocal violence and the sort of tit-for-tat response that we seem to be back into now, how possible is it for Arafat to have any room to rein in the violence? How possible is it for him to have 24 hours to actually do anything to his own people before matters are taken out of his hands by the Israelis?

Mr. Boucher: Well, we've had various periods of, you know, 24 hours, 48 hours, whatever. The point, I think, that we've always made is that this -- actions that we think Chairman Arafat needs to take are not only -- not for sake of Israelis, they're sake of Palestinians and sake of the authority, the Palestinians' Authority (sic). The groups that are challenging him, that are contradicting orders and instructions, statements that he has made, need to be held to account. And it's not a matter, as I said yesterday, of whether or they won't engage in violence at any particular moment. We need to ensure that they can't. And that's the kind of expectation that we have.

Back there.

Question: Do you have information on what the secretary and Arafat spoke about today and what Arafat's response was?

Mr. Boucher: I'm not going to try to characterize his response, and I characterized the secretary's side of the conversation the way I did. That's about as far as I want to go.

Question: Was anything else discussed?

Question: Did the secretary speak with Mr. Sharon as well?

Mr. Boucher: Not today, no.

Question: Did he say anything about General Zinni going out?

Mr. Boucher: Nothing new on General Zinni.

Staff: Secretary Burns is back.

Mr. Boucher: Secretary Burns is back. Nothing new on Zinni.

Question: So I just want to make sure I've got this clear. Even despite what you just said, the groups that are renouncing Arafat and his cease fire, you still believe that he has the necessary authority and is able to rein in the violence. That's correct?

Mr. Boucher: We believe that as the leader of the Palestinian Authority, he needs to exercise leadership. He needs to exercise his authority, yeah.

Question: But you don't see that people disobeying his orders as an indication that he has lost any leadership authority?

Mr. Boucher: I think -- you know, we've always known that there were groups that were intent upon violence and that, as the secretary said before, that violence threatens not only the Israelis, who are the victims of these attacks, but it threatens the Palestinian Authority itself. That remains the situation now.

Question: I guess what I'm asking is, if these groups have renounced his directives and are doing the opposite of what he has said, how can you hold him responsible? I mean, if they're not obeying him, is that his fault?

Mr. Boucher: It's inherent in the situation that if he's going to be the leader of the Palestinian Authority, he needs to lead and exercise authority. It's just -- it's by definition, almost. But that's --

Question: But have you seen --

Mr. Boucher: That's a responsibility that he has, and we want to see him take that kind of action.

Question: Okay, I'm sorry. Haven't you seen him try to exercise his authority over the past couple of weeks?

Mr. Boucher: We haven't seen the kind of sustained, full and effective effort that we all know is necessary to stop the violence.

Question: Okay, well, have you seen any steps on his behalf?

Mr. Boucher: Yeah. We've talked about steps --

Question: You have?

Mr. Boucher: -- when they've occurred. Yeah.

Question: Right. But now, when Palestinian groups say that they're not going to respect those steps, you seem to be suggesting that he can force them to --

Mr. Boucher: I think we would -- we continue to believe that there's more he can do to make his steps effective and to effectively stop this violence.

Question: In the last two weeks, with this latest tit-for-tat cycle, does the U.S. perceive no provocation on the part of the Israelis, such as taking out some of the militant leaders?

Mr. Boucher: We have -- first of all, some of those things -- targeted killings, incursions -- we've made quite clear what our views are in the past, and the Israelis are quite aware of our views.

Furthermore, all along we've urged both sides to avoid actions that can inflame tensions, we've urged both sides to consider the consequences of their action, and to take decisions that can facilitate progress. But we've also made clear at this juncture we think that steps by Chairman Arafat to end the violence and to account for the arms smuggling, an end to arms smuggling are what's important.

Question: But the perception, though, that you seem to give day after day is that the balance of the responsibility is on the Palestinian side, not on the Israeli side. Is that correct?

Mr. Boucher: I think both sides always have a responsibility to act wisely in these situations. We've tried to make that clear all along. But yes, we've tried to put the emphasis where we think it belongs right now.

Question: Is there any sort of step or steps that you think the Israelis should be taking, could be taking in this particular period of heightened tension that they're not taking?

Mr. Boucher: I would just leave it to the general statement that we think both sides should look for actions that can improve the situation and should think about the consequences of anything that they do.

Question: Richard, how come on a daily basis, though, the department sees it necessary to remind Arafat that he needs to take steps, but then when it comes time to something as an Israeli incursion or a targeted killing you don't find the need to make a daily reminder of Israel of what your position is because you say they know your position? But, I mean, Arafat knows your position that he needs to take more steps.

Mr. Boucher: (Laughs.) I think that there's not necessarily a virtue in repetition, although I've often said that there is. (Laughter.)

Question: There's not a virtue in repetition!? What!? You --

Mr. Fleischer: Repetition is the soul of wit, Matt.

Question: Yeah. And I -- (laughs) --

Question: But how can --

Mr. Boucher: To deal seriously with Elise's question, first of all we have channels to both parties. What I try to reflect here is what we're telling the parties. And we do tell the parties, we do tell the Israelis to consider the consequences of their actions. We do tell the Israelis to avoid steps that inflame the situation. But if our primary focus on any given day, as it has been for many days now, is to convey the message to Chairman Arafat that he needs to take steps to effectively curb the violence, then I try to make sure that we reflect that for you so that we give you an accurate picture of the situation.

Question: Do you think these targeted killings by the Israelis and the incursions are only leading to further retaliatory attacks by the Palestinians, which are further exacerbating the situation?

Mr. Boucher: I don't think there's -- we don't consider that there's any excuse for the kind of terrorism that has existed, nor is there any excuse for any -- for not taking effective steps to stop that terrorism. That remains, I think, foremost in our minds on these things. Yes, we agree that any steps that Israel takes, whether it's incursions, targeted killings or other steps, should be carefully considered.

The secretary has made that clear in his conversations in private as well as his public statements.

.....

Question: Thank you. The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade have said they've finished retaliating for the killing of one of their senior people.

Do you take that as evidence of Arafat doing what you're asking him to do?

Mr. Boucher: I don't know. I don't know. And the issue -- I don't want to become trite, but we've always said they need to dismantle the infrastructure that people use to carry out these attacks. Without that, to have a terrorist wake up one morning and saying, "I think I'll attack today" or "Maybe I won't" doesn't really do a lot of good in the long-term situation of getting back on track to pursue the Tenet plan, to pursue the Mitchell plan, and to get back on track with the achievement of some kind of vision of a better future for both Israelis and Palestinians.

Question: Is that something that the secretary discussed with Arafat today or --

Mr. Boucher: The last statement?

Question: Yeah. (Inaudible.)

Mr. Boucher: I don't know whether he did or not. But as I said, the issue is dismantling the capability of organizations like this.

Question: Is the State Department still of the view that Arafat should not visit European capitals, and stay on the ground? And are you still applying diplomatic pressure on European countries not to invite him?

Mr. Boucher: I don't -- I don't really have anything new on that at this point.

Question: Did you have anything old on it?

Mr. Boucher: No, I didn't! (Laughs; laughter.)

Question: Yeah, another region?

Question: Can I just finish -- one more --

Question: Yeah, ago ahead.

Question: Paris newspapers are quoting that their -- they have some sources that says that there's a new level of attacks that's begun on Israel, which would involve a lot of attacks on civilians inside Israel such as the shooting that we saw yesterday in Jerusalem. Do you have any comment on this?

Mr. Boucher: I don't know anything about it, and I wouldn't have any comment about other people's information, anyway.

Elise?

Question: It's a new subject.

Question: Still the Middle East.

Mr. Boucher: Okay.

Question: For obvious reasons I missed what you said about the call. But the report from out there, the Palestinian report is that Arafat asked the secretary to send Zinni back. Have you dealt with that?

Mr. Boucher: Dealt with that.

Question: You said he's not back, I believe, though, didn't you?

Mr. Boucher: I said there's nothing new on the subject. And I'll say it again.

.....

Question: Richard, this morning or overnight in Yemen, there was an explosion in a town where the U.S. consul general was, I believe. Do you guys see this as an attempt --

Mr. Boucher: I think it was -- there was -- our deputy chief of mission was down there, actually. It was a small explosive device that was detonated next to a Communications Ministry building in Saada -- S-A-A-D-A -- in northern Yemen earlier today. The building is near a hotel where a U.S. diplomatic official was staying. There's no casualties. And in our view, at least as far as what we know, the device wasn't directed at U.S. diplomatic personnel.

.....

Question: Can you talk about any criticism from U.S. European allies about the treatment of the detainees in Guantanamo Bay and whether they should be treated as prisoners of war?

Mr. Boucher: I don't know that there's anything in particular to say about some of the commentary out there. I've seen, frankly, quite a difference between some of the press commentary and some of the public polling -- for example, if you look at what the Daily Mirror did over the last couple of days. But I don't think that's really the criteria for U.S. policy. The U.S. policy, as explained by Secretary Rumsfeld yesterday for a considerable length of time, is that these individuals will be treated humanely, are being treated humanely and are being treated fully in accord with the international conventions. They get -- they get three square meals a day that are appropriate to the Muslim diet. They have opportunities to shower, to exercise, to get all appropriate medical attention. And they're being treated humanely within requirements to ensure security down there.

Question: Has the secretary been getting any specific calls from European leaders to talk about this?

Mr. Boucher: I think it has come up in his discussions with European leaders, in his discussions or communications with European leaders, and we've conveyed as much information as we can to other governments. As you know, the British had a team down there visiting. Leave it for them to characterize their impressions of it, but I think they've talked and have basically confirmed what I've said -- that these people are being treated humanely.

Question: Is the U.S. willing to admit teams of any other countries -- perhaps the Germans?

Mr. Boucher: I think that'll depend -- that'll depend on the circumstances. I'm not aware that any other visits have been arranged at this moment, but there may be.

Yeah.

Question: Richard, notwithstanding Secretary Rumsfeld's defense of the conditions down there, you have, in fact, received formal complaints about the treatment, haven't you?

Mr. Boucher: Formal complaints, I don't know. We've heard that --

Question: Well, I mean, you know -- a foreign minister bringing it up in a conversation with the secretary, although it's high-level, is a little bit different than a written diplomatic note or something like that.

Mr. Boucher: I'd have to check and see if we've gotten any formal diplomatic notes on this. Clearly, there are -- we've talked to governments -- a variety of governments who have nationals who are down there at Guantanamo. We've certainly tried to share information back and forth to find out about these individuals and what they might be involved in in more specificity than what we know already. So we are in touch with other governments, but whether we've received something formal from somebody, other than inquiries, I'd have to check.

Question: But what nationalities are represented in --

Mr. Boucher: That's not a question I can answer for you.

Question: It's not? Why not?

Mr. Boucher: We just haven't been putting out lists of the nationalities.