*EPF101 08/30/2004
Transcript: "Tremendous Victory" for Iraqi Government in Najaf, Armitage Says
(Military pressure, Sistani's efforts led to resolution of crisis) (2620)

The resolution of the crisis in the holy city of Najaf is a "tremendous victory" for the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, according to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage.

In an August 27 interview with Samir Nader of Radio Sawa/Al Hurra Television, Armitage said the settlement was also a victory for Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the senior Shiite cleric in Iraq, who arrived in Najaf on August 26 to negotiate a truce.

The deputy secretary credited the military pressure applied by the Iraqi government with creating an opening for Sistani's efforts to arrange a peace agreement with the Mahdi militia forces of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

"Clearly, the strategy of the Government of Iraq was to put enough Iraqi military pressure on Najaf to bring about a situation in which Muqtada al-Sadr would actually negotiate an end to this crisis," Armitage said. "So it's a great victory. It's a good day for Iraqis."

When asked about Syria's efforts to support Lebanese president Emile Lahoud for another term in office against the will of many Lebanese, Armitage responded it was not in Syria's interests to show disdain and disrespect for the people of Lebanon.

"Our view is very clear on this," he said, "that Lebanon and the Lebanese should be able to figure out their own future, free of all and any outside interference." Armitage called for the removal of all foreign forces from Lebanon.

Armitage also responded to questions about the Iranian nuclear weapons program and about international efforts to resolve the Darfur crisis in Sudan.

Following is the transcript of Deputy Secretary Armitage's interview:

(begin transcript)

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
For Immediate Release
August 28, 2004
2004/931

Interview

Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage
With Samir Nader of Radio Sawa/Al Hurra Television

August 27, 2004
Washington, D.C.

(3:00 p.m. EDT)

MR. NADER: Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for your time to grant
us this interview.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, thank you for having me.

MR. NADER: I would like to start by learning how do you assess the settling the crisis in Najaf?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Oh, I think this is a tremendous victory for Prime Minister Allawi and his government, and I think it's also a victory for the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani. Clearly, the strategy of the Government of Iraq was to put enough Iraqi military pressure on Najaf to bring about a situation in which Muqtada al-Sadr would actually negotiate an end to this crisis. So it's a great victory.
It's a good day for Iraqis.

MR. NADER: Did the military pressure succeed, or did Ayatollah Sistani play an important role, too?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani played a very important role, but no one would have been able to play that role without the military pressure that the Iraqi military put on Najaf, and I'm watching today on the Arab broadcast and seeing pictures of armored personnel carriers with the Iraqi flag and Iraqi soldiers patrolling the streets of Najaf and I'm seeing a new pride in the new Iraq. So we're quite happy with this and congratulate the government of Prime Minister Allawi.

MR. NADER: Did Iran play any positive role in solving this crisis?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: No.

MR. NADER: The former President of Iran, Rafsanjani, made a speech saying that the return of Ayatollah Sistani similar to the return of Ayatollah Khomeini from France in '79.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I can't speak for what Mr. Rafsanjani said, but Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani, who has recovered, thankfully, from his heart problems, is back in Najaf, has played an important role, and I think clearly came down on the side of the government and on the side of the people of Iraq, and we're delighted with the way things turned out, but most of all, we're happy for the people of Najaf, whose nightmare seems to be over.

MR. NADER: I would like to move to Lebanon and Syria. Today, it became clear in Lebanon, according to reports in the Lebanese press the last few days, that Syria rushed to -- in deciding to work for renewing the term of presidency for President Lahoud of Lebanon for another term against the will of many leaders in Lebanon. And it was interpreted in many Lebanese and Arab press that Syria was doing this to send a message to Washington because it considers Lahoud as a strategic ally at this period where Syria is facing lots of pressure from Washington.

How do you respond to this?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I think that if a message was sent by Syria, it was a message to the Lebanese people. Syria made it very clear to the people of Lebanon that they don't care about any established constitution and they don't care that the people of Lebanon are allowed to express their views and vote for whomever they wish.

Our view is very clear on this, that Lebanon and the Lebanese should be able to figure out their own future, free of all and any outside interference.

Now, furthermore, and although you didn't ask it, I will just say that it is our view, and I think the view of many in Lebanon, that it's about time -- 15 years after the Taif Accords -- to live up to the spirit of those accords and have all foreign forces removed from Lebanon.

MR. NADER: Are you having any talks with the Syrian Government regarding the issue of the presidential election?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: We've had discussions at various levels. We've had some discussions in New York with some of our UN friends about this matter.

MR. NADER: There were reports that you may send Ambassador William Burns to Damascus soon.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, if that is true, you will soon know it.

(Laughter.)

MR. NADER: So it's not confirmed yet?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I'm neither confirming nor denying. It's like nuclear policy: neither confirm nor deny.

MR. NADER: Okay. What are you going to do with Syria? I mean, are you going to allow Syria to do what it wants against what you have been asking and calling for in this issue?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, are you speaking of in the Lebanese context --

MR. NADER: Yes, yes.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: -- or in the context of Iraq?

MR. NADER: You have been calling on everybody to respect the constitution and it looks like they want to renew --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I think that they're playing a very dangerous game because they're flying in the face of the Lebanese people and I think they're showing great disdain and disrespect for the people of Lebanon. I think, in the long term, that's going to be very harmful to Syria's interest.

Syria is a landlocked country. Clearly, Syria has some interests in Lebanon, particularly being able to use ports, et cetera. So it's very well understood. But, beyond that, the best way to develop those interests is in a friendly, peaceful existence, side by side, for mutual benefit, and not by trying to enforce your will on the people of Lebanon.

MR. NADER: There was a report in the press last week that the French are asking the U.S. to take the issue to the Security Council, like to issue a resolution to call on Syria to withdraw its troops from Lebanon.

Is there truth to such --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, we've had some discussions with the French. We both have interest, sort of a historical interest in Lebanon, and we care very much what happens to the constitution and to the people of Lebanon, so it would be natural for us to have discussions.

MR. NADER: There are, they say, according to press reports, thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails, since August 15th on a hunger strike to protest inhumane treatment in the jails, and the Foreign Minister of Egypt issued a statement a few days ago calling on the U.S. and international community to ask Israel to commit to the -- to a UN accord for anti-torture.

Are you in touch with Israelis about this issue?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: First of all, I didn't see that there were thousands of Palestinian on a hunger strike. I saw a news report that there were hundreds. But that's not the important thing. Anybody suffering unfairly and unjustly is wrong.

In our State Department 2003 Human Rights Report, we spoke extensively about prison conditions in Israel and that report will show that the conditions varied. The Israeli police stations enerally accorded with international standards, but some of those run by the military, and some of those particularly that had Palestinian detainees were substandard. And we made these points and we had discussions with the Israelis about them.

We are moving toward our 2004 Human Rights Report. You can expect we'll have more discussions with the Government of Israel, including those surrounding the conditions of Palestinians held in detention.
MR. NADER: What about the issue of the withdrawal from Gaza and West Bank. Is there any hope to see any progress this year on this issue?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I certainly hope so. Prime Minister Sharon seems to be very steadfast in his desire to do this and, of course, we have had extensive discussions, as have the Israelis, with our Egyptians friends to try to make this a reality and try, for the first time, to have settlements turned over to the Palestinians and let them begin the real act of governing themselves.

So, yeah, we hope so, but time does march on.

MR. NADER: And did you find out if the decision to build 1,500 houses at the settlements violate the commitment to the roadmap? Did you decide on this issue?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: What we have determined is that our policy was outlined by the President of the United States on June 24th when he talked about the need for settlements to stop, the expansion of settlements to stop, in line with the recommendations of the Mitchell Report. It is true that the United States will be sending a team --

MR. NADER: When?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Sometime after Labor Day. I'm not sure. I don't think we've settled on a time. And we'll have to begin the process of determining about what's new and what's old. It will be very laborious and I'm sure these will be very difficult discussions with the Israelis.

MR. NADER: I see. And regarding Iran, the Iranian military leaders have been issuing threats during the last two weeks against Israel and the U.S. if they consider attacking their nuclear installments, and Under Secretary Bolton, in a speech this month before the Hudson Institute, said that Iran told the German and French that they are capable to produce, I guess, a nuclear bomb in a year.

Is this the case?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, it's certainly the case that Iran is intent on acquiring nuclear weapons and it certainly is the case that the Iranians, particularly the Defense Minister, issued some rather bombastic statements that found no echo because people realized it was bombast.

Regarding the ability of the Iranians to develop nuclear weapons, they are some time away. I don't like to talk publicly about how long away. They have made various comments to various people about their ability, if they desire, to manufacture weapons, or at least enough weapons grade plutonium in a certain time period. But I think the time period varies with which Iranian is speaking.

MR. NADER: And regarding Sudan and Darfur, what is the expectations now? Are you going to really implement sanctions on Sudan or --

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, first of all, sanctions on Sudan is not something that's implemented by one country. But, clearly, the international community spoke a month ago -- 13 to 0 to 2 abstentions -- on the need for Sudan to do two things: to provide humanitarian access for foods and medicines for the people of Darfur; and to exert maximum efforts to rein in or to stop the Jingaweit from committing atrocities.

On the former, that is, on the provision of humanitarian assistance, I can report that there is much better cooperation by the Government of Sudan in this matter. But on the question of reining in the Jingaweit, they are not yet doing all they should do, and we will wait till the 2nd of September, I believe it is, Mr. Pronk, the Secretary General's Special Representative for Darfur, will make an announcement to the -- or a progress report to the Council, and then we'll sit and talk with our colleagues and we'll decide what to do.

Some people will argue for giving the Government of Sudan a little more time. Other people will argue for being more harsh now. I think the fact is we all, in the international community, have to keep the pressure on the Government of Sudan to do the right thing.

MR. NADER: But you didn't reach a decision to decide if it's a genocide or not?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: This loses the point. It might make somebody feel good to call it a genocide. The fact of the matter is the important thing is to stop the dying and stopping the suffering, no matter what you call it. That's where we're concentrating our efforts.

MR. NADER: But if it's a genocide, shouldn't you call it genocide?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Do you think it's genocide?

MR. NADER: I don't know. I haven't been there.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: No, well, others have been there and they haven't made that determination yet, either. It's a very difficult and complex issue. The camps are -- there are many camps and some are roving camps. It's very difficult to get one's arms around the whole thing.

That's why the debate about genocide or not, I believe, is a little misleading. What's important is to stop the suffering of any person, no matter what you call it.

MR. NADER: Before I forget this question, also the Israeli Minister of Defense also issued threats to Syria and Lebanon regarding Hezbollah and that he is behind the operations in the West Bank.
Are you aware of these statements?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I didn't see those statements, but I, myself, have made some comments about Hezbollah from time to time and their activities directed against Israel. And I must say that Hezbollah should be careful of playing with fire.

MR. NADER: Mr. Secretary, is there a final word you would like -- a final word you would like to say?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: The final word I'd have for you, sir, I think, is shokran. (Laughter.)

MR. NADER: Shokran Jazilan. Thank you so much for your time. I am so thankful to you.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Great.

(Crosstalk)

MR. NADER: How do you see the Arab media reporting on the question, the issue of Iraq? Is there any progress?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, we've certainly had our difficulties with Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya, for that matter. But I must say, I saw something rather remarkable yesterday. I saw a member of the Iraqi National Guard, in his helmet and in his uniform with his weapon, being interviewed by Al Jazeera on the outskirts of the compound at the Imam Ali Mosque in a very straightforward manner. This was a first.

MR. NADER: So there is progress?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: In my view, it is.

MR. NADER: Okay, thank you so much, Mr. Secretary.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Thank you.

(end transcript)

(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)

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