*EPF305 07/28/2004
Transcript: Iraq Needs International Security Help, Says Powell
(Notes U.N. resolution on Sudan would offer grace period before sanctions) (2960)

Secretary of State Colin Powell said Iraq continues to need help from the international community to provide security within the country and called upon nations to help protect U.N. workers who will be assisting the country with its upcoming elections.

Speaking with Egyptian Television's Nihal Saad in Cairo July 28, Powell said that as Iraq's security forces and interim government gain strength and bring the insurgency under control, "you will see the United States starting to stand back."

"That's all we ever wanted to do," said Powell. "But right now, the Iraqis need help and whatever help they can get from their neighboring countries in the form of economic help or training Iraqi forces, Iraqi police, would be very, very useful."

Asked about the humanitarian and political crisis in Sudan, Powell said the international community is bringing pressure upon the government in Khartoum to improve access for humanitarian relief, to engage in a political dialogue with rebel leaders, and "above all create a secure environment for the political process to take place and also for aid to be delivered to these desperate people."

Powell said both the United States and the European Union are considering economic sanctions against Sudan.

"It is not enough of an excuse to say well we don't want to put sanctions on this regime, we'd rather just see several hundred thousand people go through this terrible period where so many of them will die," he said.

Describing the situation in Darfur as "catastrophic," Powell said the international community should put a resolution before the United Nations "that gives Sudan the opportunity to fix this problem before sanctions will be considered," adding that the resolution would provide a one-month grace period.

Earlier on July 28, Powell met with Egyptian officials, including Prime Minister Ahmed Nazief, and he said he was impressed with Nazief's initial ideas on reforms.

"This I think will be seen with favor in Washington," he said. "It's reform that is coming from within. It's not reform that the United States is imposing."

Turning to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Powell said Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan from Gaza and part of the West Bank is "an exciting possibility" consistent with U.N. Security Council resolutions 242 and 338 and the Middle East Road Map.

Sharon, he said, had agreed to remove all 21 Israeli settlements from Gaza, as well as four West Bank settlements "as openers."

He said a responsible Palestinian leadership needs to emerge, and called upon Palestinian leaders to follow up on promises and statements concerning new security arrangements with "actual results."

Powell also expressed disappointment with the rate at which Israel is removing unauthorized settlement outposts.

"[T]hey're not being removed at the rate that we think is appropriate, and we have expressed our disappointment to Prime Minister Sharon," he said.

Following is the transcript of Secretary Powell's interview with Egyptian Television:

(begin transcript)

U.S. Department of State
Officer of the Spokesman
(Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
July 28, 2004

INTERVIEW

Secretary Of State Colin L. Powell
With Nihal Saad of Egyptian Television

July 28, 2004
Cairo, Egypt

MS. SAAD: Secretary of State Colin Powell, we thank you very much for talking to us again.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, my pleasure.

MS. SAAD: Thank you, sir. Let me start with the bilateral relations between Egypt and the United States. When President Mubarak was in Texas earlier on this year in April, Egypt and the United States celebrated 30 years of their relations. Also, I would like to thank you very much on the letter that you sent on July 17th commending Egypt's relations with the United States and the kind of cooperation Egypt is displaying. But it looks like there is a sort of disconnect or a lack of rapport between what the State Department is thinking about Egypt and Egypt's efforts and between the Congress on the other hand. I'm talking particularly about a draft resolution that was submitted by Tom Lantos and also by Anthony Wiener in New York who wanted to channel Egypt's military aid to a kind of economic aid. How would you comment on that, sir?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well I'm pleased that that proposal by Congressman Lantos did not succeed. I was pleased to write a letter and members of my colleagues in the Administration also made phone calls to members of Congress suggesting, look Egypt has been a good friend, they're supporting us in so many ways, and it would not be appropriate right now to change the way the funding is provided to Egypt.

But it does reflect some concern on the part of Congress that Egypt needs to do more with respect to reform. And that's why I was pleased today to have an opportunity to meet with the new Prime Minister and have a good conversation with him on the subject of reform. I must say I am very impressed by the initial ideas he has. It will take him a while to flesh these ideas out, but I think he comes in with a fresh approach, and that will help me in my job in persuading the Congress that Egypt is moving in the right direction.

MS. SAAD: And how much of a weight does the State Department has at the Congress? There is this classical debate between Congress on the one hand, the White House and the State Department on the other hand, this is a classical debate that has been going on for years and years and years back in the States.

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, it's a classic debate. It's called democracy. We are forever fighting with our Congress about one issue or another. And as you know there are forces within the Congress that believe Egypt should not get the same amount every year. But we believe it is a proper investment in Egypt and it's an investment in a country that has been a friend of the United States for so many years. And I believe it's a debate that the President and the State Department, assisting the President, will continue to win.

But it's important, as I noted earlier, for Egypt to move in the direction of reform of the kind that is being designed by President Mubarak and by the new Prime Minister and his new cabinet. This I think will be seen with favor in Washington. It's reform that is coming from within. It's not reform that the United States is imposing. The United States can help, but ultimately it's modernization and reform that has to come from within the country. And that's what members of Congress are looking toward and I think the new government certainly is moving in that direction.

MS. SAAD: Mr. Secretary, let me move to the issue of Iraq. As you may well know, Iraq's neighboring countries held their meeting here in Cairo just last week and we have the sense that the new interim Iraqi Government do want to change the format of these meetings, that is in a sort of expand the cooperation of the countries helping and supporting Iraq at this point to include more countries other than the neighbors of Iraq. How do you see the UN resolution 1546 being more effective economically and politically in Iraq, involving other countries, without having to be working under the banner of multinational forces in Iraq. As you may well understand, this is a very sensitive issue to countries neighboring to Iraq and some Arab countries as well.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well the 31 nations in the Coalition right now I think are doing absolutely a superb work to assist the Iraqi interim government as it builds up its own forces. Ultimately we want Iraqis to be responsible for their own security, but right now they need the help of others.

Now I am pleased that President Mubarak served as host of all of the neighboring countries coming to meet with Prime Minister Allawi and his folks, and we're looking to see if we can have a similar meeting, but expand that meeting so that other nations that have an interest in Iraq, the G8 perhaps, and other nations, might participate in the broader grouping of individuals to assist the Iraqi interim government.

Prime Minister Allawi is off to a good start. He is showing a great deal of courage. He is showing a great deal of determination. We just heard announced in the last 24 hours that the council will be convened at the end of this month, in early August.

All of this shows that the Iraqi people want to take charge of their own destiny. That's all we wanted, that's all we ever wanted was the Iraqi people to decide freely, openly, in a democratic way how they will be governed and that process is underway. And the stronger they get with their security forces, the more the insurgency is brought under the control of the Iraqi interim government, the more you will see the United States starting to stand back. That's all we ever wanted to do. But right now, the Iraqis need help and whatever help they can get from their neighboring countries in the form of economic help or training Iraqi forces, Iraqi police, would be very, very useful. And other nations that are not yet part of the coalition who might be interested in supporting the UN efforts, we are looking for forces that might come into Iraq to protect the UN workers that will be going around to help conduct the elections in the course of the year. So we're still anxious to see more individual countries make military contributions, principally to support the UN effort.

MS. SAAD: On that note, Prime Minister Allawi also visited a number of other Arab countries among which was Syria and we've seen from the statements coming from both Mr. Allawi and from the Syrian leadership that there was sort of an rapprochement happening between the leaderships of both countries and there was a Syrian willingness to cooperate in the controlling of the long borders between Syria and Iraq, but as you may well know, Sir, that this was something of a huge task and maybe Syria would not have enough potential to do that. Would the United States be willing to help Syria logistically at least, on that aspect?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well I know that the Prime Minister of the Iraqi interim government, Mr. Allawi, has had good conversations with the Syrians. I'm going to be seeing him tomorrow and hear directly what he believes the situation is. We have been saying to the Syrians for some time that they should do a better job on the border. Even within the resources they now have, they can do a better job on the border. But cooperating with the Iraqis would certainly improve their ability to secure this difficult border that they have with Iraq. And to the extent that we can be helpful, we will certainly examine what we might be able to do. There has been some cooperation along the border between our units and Syrian units, and perhaps there's more that we can do.

MS. SAAD: On the issue of Gaza, when Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom was in DC earlier on this month, you've expressed your disappointment perhaps at the rate of the dismantling of illegal outposts, Israeli illegal outposts. Has there been any change in that position? Has there been any change in the Israeli position regarding the dismantling of the illegal outposts so far?

SECRETARY POWELL: The Prime Minister has made a commitment to the President that these outposts would be removed, but unfortunately they're not being removed at the rate that we think is appropriate, and we have expressed our disappointment to Prime Minister Sharon, and I know that he's looking at it. But part of his commitment was to remove these outposts.

We are also focusing of course on what he's trying to do with respect to settlements in Gaza and we believe this is an exciting possibility that has been presented to the Palestinian people and to the international community to remove all 21 settlements from Gaza, four settlements from the West Bank, and more to be removed...

MS. SAAD: Four settlements in the West Bank as openers?

SECRETARY POWELL: Openers, we only see that as openers. And it is all consistent with 242 and 338; it is all consistent with the Roadmap. It has to be brought within the framework of the Roadmap, and the Quartet will be playing an active role in this. So what we were able to do with Prime Minister Sharon's unilateral initiative is to use this unilateral initiative and build on it by adding the four West Bank settlements as openers and making sure that all is within the context of the Roadmap. Prime Minister Sharon has agreed to that.

Now what we really need is responsible leadership to emerge on the Palestinian side, and as you know within the last day Prime Minister Abu Alaa and Chariman Arafat have made some arrangements. But what's important is will these arrangements work? Will we actually see action? Will we see the security forces consolidated? Will they be under the real authority of the Prime Minister or will they still be sort of under the authority of Chairman Arafat. This is what we're going to be looking for, actual results as opposed to promises as opposed to just statements.

MS. SAAD: Right. And on the issue of Sudan, the United States seems to be in agreement with the Germans as far as slapping sanctions on Sudan is concerned because of the issue in Darfur. And this is basing many concerns in this part of the world, in Arab world, and certainly on Egypt because many other European countries as well and part of the international community they say that slapping sanctions on Sudan at this point is going to do more harm than good. And after all there had been people dying in the south of Sudan for a long time, nobody thought about slapping sanctions. Palestinians dying, more than 3000 Palestinians died so far, nobody thought about slapping sanctions. So they see this as a sort of double standard policy, slapping sanctions on Sudan at this point.

SECRETARY POWELL: We never slap sanctions, in fact over the last three year we have taken sanctions off of Sudan. For the last three years, this Administration has been removing sanctions from Sudan, and in fact because of the North-South agreements that have been entered into we have been looking forward to providing all kinds of assistance to Sudan.

However, this Darfur situation is catastrophic. And what we have said is let's put a resolution before the United Nations that gives Sudan the opportunity to fix this problem before sanctions will be considered. The specific language of the resolution says let's consider measures or ...

MS. SAAD: How much time have you given Sudan?

SECRETARY POWELL: A month.

MS. SAAD: But the United Nations, Kofi Annan, gave them three months.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well I don't know what his position is now. One month has already gone by since he entered into a communiqué with them. So it's almost a month since then. This resolution would provide another month of grace and it says that it will be measured every month after that. But along the way, the possibility of taking additional measures to include sanctions might be considered. And how much time does it require for the Sudanese Government to respond to this terrible tragedy. In this particular instance, we have hundreds of thousands of people who have been pushed off the land that they were growing their crops on and the villages that they were in and been forced into these camps. And the camps are not adequate and these people are going to die over the period of the Fall if we don't get more assistance to them. And that's starting to happen now. The assistance is flowing.

What we need is a secure environment in which to provide that assistance. And we believe it is the burden of the Sudanese Government to provide that secure environment. The European Union you said was objecting to sanctions but just yesterday the European Union specifically said, after all of its Foreign Ministers met, that sanctions might be appropriate. To some extent the European Union is speaking more about sanctions than the United States is at this point.

MS. SAAD: And the Dutch Foreign Minister said it would do more harm than do good when he was speaking to the Sudanese Foreign Minister.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well the European Union, however, subsequently took a position that said that sanctions may have to be considered unless there is more action forthcoming from the Sudanese Government with respect to improving the security situation in Darfur.

We are bringing the international community to bear on the Sudanese Government to improve access, get the political process started with the rebels, but above all create a secure environment for the political process to take place and also for aid to be delivered to these desperate people. It is not enough of an excuse to say well we don't want to put sanctions on this regime, we'd rather just see several hundred thousand people go through this terrible period where so many of them will die.

MS. SAAD: U.S. Secretary of State, Mr. Colin Powell, we thank you very much for your time.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you.

MS. SAAD: Thank you very much.

(end transcript)

(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)

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