*EPF508 07/02/2004
Transcript: U.S. Human Rights Advocacy Not Stalled by Abu Ghraib, Powell Says
(Real issue is how a democracy deals with such problems) (2470)

The United States has not lost its legitimacy as a force for the promotion of better human rights because of U.S. military conduct at the prison at Abu Ghraib, says Secretary of State Colin Powell.

In a June 2 interview with Indonesian television, Powell said the conduct of American soldiers at Abu Ghraib "was a shock to all of us."

"There is no excuse for it," Powell said. "Those soldiers should have known better. They did not receive any instructions to act in that way, and if they had, they should have disobeyed them. It was totally inconsistent with their code as soldiers. And so we deplore that; the President said that repeatedly."

He noted, however, that "What the world will now see is how America deals with this kind of a problem: with open inquiries, with investigations, with the Congress overseeing the actions of the Executive branch, with free media looking into it constantly. And that's how we deal with such problems. And that's how democracies should deal with such problems. Democracies are not immune from these kinds of problems. The real issue is how does a democracy deal with it."

Powell said Iraq's interim government is "doing very well" after just one week in office. He emphasized that the current leadership is "a caretaker government" that will only be in power until an election is held at the end of the year. "I think success will be further measured beyond what we've done so far when that election is held. Elections are the means by which you give legitimacy to a government. And so we look forward to those elections at the end of the year," he said.

Powell said U.S. troops will stay in Iraq "as long as we are needed" and until Iraqi security forces are able to protect their country. "I think you will see the professionalism and capability of Iraqi security forces grow very rapidly," the Secretary predicted. "And I can't give you a timetable as to when they will be able to fully takeover but we
all look forward to that day."

In discussing the Middle East, Powell emphasized that "the Palestinians deserve a state of their own," one that "will live in peace with the state of Israel." He said the Bush administration is determined to do "everything we can to see that state created."

Asked about anti-Americanism, Powell said that, while many do not like U.S. policies, "there is still a great deal of understanding of our country and respect for our country."

When U.S. work in Iraq is completed and there is a solution to establish peace in the Middle East, then people will respect the United States "as a nation that begins in liberty ... believes in freedom and believes in helping nations to achieve their own destiny, to achieve democracy and openness and a free economic systems and the rights of all citizens," Powell said.

Following is the State Department transcript of the Powell interview:

(begin transcript)

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
(Guam)
For Immediate Release
July 2, 2004
2004/745

INTERVIEW

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell
With Jason Tedjasukamana of Indonesia's Metro TV

Jakarta, Indonesia
July 2, 2004

QUESTION: First, I wanted to ask about the talks with the North Korean Foreign Minister and if there are any breakthroughs with the talks?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, this was merely an opportunity to clarify our position and for them to clarify theirs for us. It was essentially a clarification of the six-party discussions that we held last week. There were no negotiations this morning.

QUESTION: And also, keeping on North Korea. Why isn't the Bush doctrine being adhered to in the case of North Korea when we have the case of a ruthless dictator or, at least a tyrant, in obvious possession of weapons of mass destruction and also a country that clearly poses a threat to the U.S. and its neighbors?

SECRETARY POWELL: The Bush doctrine says: let's tries to solve a problem peacefully. The Bush doctrine says that we believe in talking to people, we believe in diplomacy, and as President Bush has often said, force should always be a last resort. And right now we are in, we believe, productive discussions with the North Koreans in the context of six-party discussions. So there are six parties that are now involved in these negotiations. The Chinese have served as the host and are also a participant. And as long as there continues to be movement and progress, then we want to solve this diplomatically. We have no desire or intention to attack or invade North Korea, and North Korea has said it wishes to eliminate this nuclear capability it has but it has certain conditions and circumstances under which it would do so. And we also believe the Korean Peninsula should be denuclearized, as do the other four members of the six-party group. And so we will continue to move diplomatically to find a diplomatic solution.

QUESTION: Coming to Indonesia now, given the fact that at least one retired general may very likely make it into the second round of the elections, and also following the expulsion of Sidney Jones, whom you may be aware of, I'm sure you are aware of, is there concern in the U.S. that maybe the military is reasserting its influence in Indonesia or perhaps it could exert too much influence in the coming years?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well that's up to the Indonesian people to decide. I have confidence in the democratic system here and I have confidence that the Indonesian people will make a proper choice. They know the backgrounds of the all the candidates and they can examine them and they are not strangers to the Indonesian people. And whoever the Indonesian people choose to be the next President is someone you can be sure the United States will look forward to working with. Even in my country we have seen retired generals run for office; recently, as a matter of fact. And so let the people decide.

QUESTION: So there's a strong interest though in resuming ties with the Indonesian military with the clearance of the case in Timika?

SECRETARY POWELL: We always are interested in improving bilateral relations in all categories with our friends, our partners around the world. Indonesia is certainly one of our very best friends; a country we have enormous respect for and we try to provide assistance in many different ways. And to the extent that it's appropriate, military-to-military contacts are useful, as a way of understanding one another as a way of dealing with common threats throughout the area now which are different from the threats of old.

The threats now are terrorism, trafficking in people, drugs and all sorts of things. So we want to cooperate with all levels -- law enforcement, intelligence, military, political. And I'm pleased that the relationship between our two countries right now is quite good.

QUESTION: Are you concerned that the U.S. as a force for the promotion of better human rights has lost its legitimacy following the revelations of torture at Abu Ghraib?

SECRETARY POWELL: We are very disappointed at what happened at Abu Ghraib. It was a shock to all of us. There is no excuse for it. Those soldiers should have known better. They did not receive any instructions to act in that way, and if they had, they should have disobeyed them. It was totally inconsistent with their code as soldiers. And so we deplore that; the President said that repeatedly. What the world will now see is how America deals with this kind of a problem: with open inquiries, with investigations, with the Congress overseeing the actions of the Executive branch, with free media looking into it constantly. And that's how we deal with such problems. And that's how democracies should deal with such problems. Democracies are not immune from these kinds of problems. The real issue is how does a democracy deal with it.

QUESTION: And also on Iraq. Following the hand-over in Iraq, what will you look for as a test of success in Iraq?.

SECRETARY POWELL: I think we have success already with an interim government that's taken over and is beginning to function. And I think it's doing very well after just one week - less than one week -- in office. And keep in mind that this government is a caretaker government. It's only going to be in power until an election is held at the end of the year or the beginning of next year to give legitimacy to a national assembly and a government. And I think success will be further measured beyond what we've done so far when that election is held. Elections are the means by which you give legitimacy to a government. And so we look forward to those elections at the end of the year.

QUESTION: You think that could be used as a timetable for the presence of US troops in Iraq that they will stay there until free and fair elections are held?

SECRETARY POWELL: We'll stay there as long as we are needed, and I think we will be needed until Iraqi security forces, army and police force and are able to protect their country. We don't want to stay there. They don't want us to remain there. Why would they? And why should we? But they also know that our presence is necessary until they are ready to do it themselves. And I think that now that they have their own government and now that they are answering to their own government and not to the coalition provisional authority, I think you will see the professionalism and capability of Iraqi security forces grow very rapidly. And I can't give you a timetable as to when they will be able to fully takeover but we all look forward to that day.

QUESTION: And coming back to Indonesia and Islam in particular, what can the U.S. do not to fan the flames of radicalism? Do you believe that there is some type of struggle going on for the soul of Islam nowadays?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I think Islam is a great religion. And I think most Muslims want what most Christians or most Jews want. They want peace. They want to be able to practice their faith. They don't want the extremes to come in and try to subvert a religion of peace and friendliness, a religion of tolerance. And most religions in the world are like that, including Islam. And so I think it is important for Muslims to practice their faith in that manner and not allow their faith to be used as an excuse for terror by those because that is not the faith of Islam.

The United States respects all faiths. There are some suggestion often made that the United States is anti-Islam, anti-Moslem. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have so many Muslims in the United States that respect and are living in peace in a diverse society, but I think Muslims will understand this better as we bring a solution to the Iraqi situation and people can see this new Moslem nation that will be living in peace and practicing democracy.

And we are also working hard in the Middle East to find a solution to the challenge of Israelis and Palestinians fighting one another. We want to see a Palestinian state created. The Palestinians deserve a state of their own, and that's the President's goal - a state that will live in peace with the state of Israel. It has been a wish for many, many decades. President Bush is the first one to say he is going to do everything in his power to bring this Palestinian state into being. A state called Palestine. And it's hard work, but it we are going to stick with this hard work and do everything we can to see that state created.

QUESTION: What does the United States have to do to have to win other countries' confidence in its policies?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think we just have to keep doing what we think is right, keep explaining our actions. I am well aware that there is something of a tide of anti-Americanism. I think it is really anti-American policies, some of the policies that we have had to follow to do what we think is right. It has generated some anti-American feeling. But I think underneath it there is still a great deal of understanding of our country and respect for our country, and we hope we'll get back to that point once we finish the work in Iraq and if we can get a solution in the Middle East peace process. Then people will respect the United States the way I would like to see the United States respected as a nation that begins in liberty and believes in liberty; that believes in freedom and believes in helping nations to achieve their own destiny, to achieve democracy and openness and a free economic systems and the rights of all citizens. That's the kind of society you are going to need to be successful in the 21st century.

QUESTION: And then lastly, in the Malacca Straits, do you think is there is an interest of the U.S. to assist in patrolling the Malacca Straits? And if in fact there is, couldn't that actually attract more terrorists than it could thwart, having a U.S. presence here?

SECRETARY POWELL: We believe that the nations in the region are fully capable of protecting the Straits. What we wanted to do is to point out to the nations in the region that there are dangers in this area as a result of trafficking of drugs and terrorist activity going through the Straits. And I am pleased that the nations in the region have stepped forward and said yes, we have to do a better job. That doesn't require U.S. involvement or participation. It is better if it is done by the countries involved. We don't have any particular desire to be involved in this. Now, if the nations involved wish us to provide some technical assistance or some advice, we're always willing to do that. But we believe this is a matter for the sovereign nations in the region to deal with.

QUESTION: OK great. Thank you very much for your time Mr. Secretary. It's a real honor. Thanks very much.

(end transcript)

(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)

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