*EPF304 07/02/2003
Transcript: Powell Sees Hopeful Signs in Mideast, But Terrorism Still a Threat
(No decision on U.S. action on Liberia, tells Fox News July 1) (1850)

Secretary of State Colin Powell says there are hopeful signs of progress toward peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

"Today was a fascinating day," he said during an interview July 1 with American television's Fox News, "to see the two prime ministers out there talking about peace, talking about reconciliation, and promising to work with each other and cooperate with each other."

He made that comment in reference to a meeting between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Prime Mahmoud Abbas in Jerusalem July 1.

Powell said he believed organized terrorist elements still pose a potential threat to progress along the U.S.-backed roadmap to peace. While Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the Al-Aqsa Brigades have agreed to a three-month ceasefire, he noted that as long as these groups retain their capabilities they can withdraw from a ceasefire at some time in the future.

"So we hope they'll stay with the ceasefire, but ultimately, we are going have to convert this kind of organization into organizations that no longer are interested in using terror as a political weapon," Powell said.

Asked about the social services Hamas provides Palestinians under occupation, Powell said the social services wing and the armed militant wing "that is determined to destroy the state of Israel" cannot be separated.

"These two wings cannot live separate lives. They are one organization. And until Hamas abandons all efforts to conduct terrorist activity ... then we have to be hard on all of Hamas," Powell said.

Turning to Africa, Powell said that the U.S. officials are examining possible U.S. action to end violence in Liberia but have not yet presented a recommendation to President Bush.

Commenting on Iraq, Powell voiced confidence in the ability of the United States and its partners to overcome security setbacks and help Iraqis develop the lasting institutions of a modern, representative government.

"In conversations that I had with the president and I had with my other colleagues in the National Security Council, we discussed the very real likelihood that after this conflict there might be the collapse of all law and order and the entire regime and all of the institutions of the regime. And that's happened, so we have 24 million people who are looking for institutions to be recreated and for order to be restored. And we are hard at work in that, and I am quite confident we will succeed," Powell said.

Following is the complete transcript of Secretary Powell's interview on Fox News, July 1.

(begin transcript)

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman

July 1, 2003

INTERVIEW

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell
On Fox News with Brit Hume

July 1, 2003
(6:19 p.m. EDT)

MR. HUME: Mr. Secretary, thank you for doing this.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Brit. Good evening.

MR. HUME: Could you clear up something for me? I noticed you were asked the other day about the ingredients of this new progress that's being made down the roadmap, so to speak, and you mentioned Mahmoud Abbas's presence. You mentioned the will of the people on both sides in that conflict over there. You mentioned the involvement of the President. You did not mention the outcome of the war in Iraq as having had an effect there. Did it, in your judgment, or not?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think it did, because with the end of the war in Iraq and the removal of the Saddam Hussein regime, one of the threats to Israel was eliminated and frankly, the power equation in the Middle East in the Gulf region changed. And I think that gave Prime Minister Sharon more flexibility in the decisions that he might make. And after that was done, the President was able to devote his full attention to getting the roadmap underway, and then of course, with the elevation of Prime Minister Abbas to Prime Ministership, the conditions were met for the presentation of the roadmap. And it's rather fascinating to see what's happened just in the past month: from concern that we weren't going anywhere to presentation of the roadmap, and then the Sharm el-Sheikh and Aqaba Summits, and then the progress we have seen so far on both parties -- that have been made by both parties.

And today was a fascinating day, as well, to see the two prime ministers out there talking about peace, talking about reconciliation, and promising to work with each other and cooperate with each other. So this is very hopeful, Brit.

MR. HUME: As you go forward, Mr. Secretary, what are you most worried about that could interfere here?

SECRETARY POWELL: What I'm worried about is remaining terrorist organizations that have not given up the quest to destroy the state of Israel and do not want peace.

MR. HUME: What are you talking about specifically there?

SECRETARY POWELL: I'm talking about Hamas. I'm talking about the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. I'm talking about the Al-Aqsa Brigades. They have entered into a ceasefire. But as long as they have the capability to conduct these kinds of attacks, they can come out of a ceasefire at some time in the future. So we hope they'll stay with the ceasefire, but ultimately, we are going have to convert this kind of organization into organizations that no longer are interested in using terror as a political weapon.

And I believe that's also the commitment of Prime Minister Abbas. As he has said, "The armed Intifadah must end." And he has also said, "Those who have guns within any state must be under the control of the government. The government has to have the power, the military power, the armed power in a democratic state." And I hope he will continue to believe in that and move in that direction.

MR. HUME: The President has spoken of dismantling Hamas. Can that be done?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, it remains to be seen what Hamas chooses to do as it moves forward. Hamas has a social wing to it where it provides services to people, but it has this armed militant wing that is determined to destroy the state of Israel. These two wings cannot live separate lives. They are one organization. And until Hamas abandons all efforts to conduct terrorist activity and all intent to conduct terrorist activity, then we have to be hard on all of Hamas.

So we'll see how this evolves in the days ahead. I think it's very good right now that we have the transfer of responsibility in Gaza; hopefully, in Bethlehem within the next day or so, and the ceasefire in place that seems to be holding even though there have been two incidents, one yesterday and one today. But they seem to be minor incidents, and I hope it will hold. We can't let these minor incidents or a single incident destroy the promise of the roadmap that is now before us.

MR. HUME: Mr. Secretary, the French and others are calling on the United States to send forces in and get deeply involved in that messy situation in Liberia, where blood continues to flow in the streets of Monrovia, a dangerous and messy situation. What is the United States prepared to do there?

SECRETARY POWELL: We're examining the situation very carefully. There is a lull in the fighting right now between the rebel forces and the government. President Bush has called on President Taylor to step down. He is now an indicted war criminal. And we are concerned about the humanitarian situation in the streets of Monrovia and all of the displaced people, so we are in close touch with the United Nations.

I have had a number of conversations with Secretary General Annan over the past week. And we're examining our options as to what we might do, but the President has not yet made any decision. We have not provided the President with a recommendation from his National Security team yet.

MR. HUME: So would you rule forces in -- rule U.S. forces in or out, or not at all?

SECRETARY POWELL: The President is examining all of the options, all of the possibilities. I wouldn't rule anything in or out yet.

MR. HUME: In Iraq, I think that people reading front pages and, perhaps, watching certain news broadcasts could come away with the impression that the United States, having won the war, is now in the process of losing the peace. What is your reaction to that?

SECRETARY POWELL: That's not -- simply not true. We had a meeting with Ambassador Bremer this morning by video teleconferencing, and he was pretty upbeat. While we see the same things that you see, Brit, on television and in our morning papers, there are a lot of good things that are going on.

Our brigade commanders out in the field now have money to help rebuild schools and other facilities in all of the communities in which they are working and stationed. The economy is slowly starting to get up to speed again. It will take a long time, but it's slowly, slowly starting to move. The oil is starting to flow. There are still terrorists there. There are still Baath Party members who don't want to give it up. There are still Fedayeen and others who are determined not to see peace.

But I think over time, our military forces and a renewed Iraqi police force will be able to deal with these elements, provide a level of security throughout the country, so that we can get the infrastructure up and running: the electrical system, the sewage system, the water system. And that will start to show the Iraqi people that they're going to have a better life, and the coalition will help them to that better life. And as soon as possible, we want to transfer responsibility to Iraqi officials so that they have responsibility for their own country, their own people and their own destiny.

MR. HUME: We have just about a minute left, Mr. Secretary. Has this phase of this proved more difficult and bloody than the United States may have anticipated?

SECRETARY POWELL: It's proven to be difficult. I don't think any of us were naïve about the difficulties we were facing. In conversations that I had with the President and I had with my other colleagues in the National Security Council, we discussed the very real likelihood that after this conflict, there might be the collapse of all law and order and the entire regime and all of the institutions of the regime. And that's happened, so we have 24 million people who are looking for institutions to be recreated and for order to be restored. And we are hard at work in that, and I am quite confident we will succeed.

QUESTION: Secretary of State Colin Powell, thank you very much for joining us.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you very much, Brit.

(end transcript)

(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)

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