*EPF407 05/30/2002
Transcript: Taylor: Good Human Rights Policy Is Good Counterterrorism
(May 23: State's counterterrorism chief on Patterns of Global Terrorism) (6680)

"Good human rights policy is good counterterrorism," according to Ambassador Francis Taylor, the head of the Office of Counterterrorism at the Department of State.

"Counterterrorism is not a smoke screen for human rights abuses, and we have made this clear with all the governments with which we deal," Taylor said during a State Department "Dialogue" program with participants in Georgia, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. "Human rights is the basic fundamental principle of our country, and it's a fundamental part of our foreign policy engagement with all countries around the world."

Taylor said the campaign against terrorism is about more than just the United States responding to terrorism. "It's about the world responding. In places where people want to respond and do not have the capacity to respond, we are committed to working with our partners in those nations to improve that capacity, so that terrorists will have no seam in which to operate anywhere in the world."

"Our war with terror is not with Islam or people who are Islamic, or people who are Moslem or from the Arab world," he emphasized. "Our war is with terrorist organizations like al Qaeda that attempt to hijack a religion, a great religion like Islam, for very evil purposes that the entire Islamic world has rejected as a true vision of what Islam is all about. This war is about going after evil people who bring violence on innocent civilians for political purposes -- not going against religions or certain people of certain ethnic groups."

He said the United States is committed to helping Central Asian nations improve their capability to defend their nations "as well as to join the international community in our fight against terrorism." There will be a conference in Ankara at the end of June to discuss ways the United States can assist the governments of the region, how those governments can work more effectively together against terrorism, "and how terrorism from your region can be stopped from spreading to other regions around the world," Taylor said.

The full report "Patterns of Global Terrorism 2001" is available on the State Department's Internet website at http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2001/.

Following is a transcript of the program:

(begin transcript)

"DIALOGUE"

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of Broadcast Services
Washington, D.C.

GUEST: Francis Taylor
Office of Counterterrorism, U.S. Department of State
TOPIC: "Patterns of Global Terrorism"
POSTS: Tblisi, Bishkek, Tashkent
HOST: Rick Foucheux

DATE: May 23, 2002
TIME: 10:00-11:00 EDT

SEC. POWELL (from videotape): In 2001, for the first time, terrorists struck with savagery in the United States, killing some 3,000 people from 80 different countries. This report, mandated by Congress, is the 22nd such annual report to chronicle in grim detail the lethal threat that terrorism casts over the globe. Though the threat from terrorism is not new, the world's resolve to defeat it has never been greater. The report records the death toll in 2001 from terrorist attacks in which conventional weapons were used. It also confirms that terrorists are trying every way they can to get their hands on weapons of mass destruction, whether radiological, chemical, biological or nuclear. The terrorist threat is global in scope, many-faceted and determined. This report marks the significant progress against terrorism that we and our coalition partners are making in a variety of critical areas. Increasing the capacity of other nations to fight terrorism on their own soil is also critical to breaking the back of terrorism worldwide. Terrorists respect no limits, geographic or moral. The front lines are everywhere, and the stakes are high. In this global campaign against terrorism, no country, no nation has the luxury of remaining on the sidelines, because there are no sidelines.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Hello, and welcome to the "Dialogue." I'm Rick Foucheux.

In the wake of September 11th, the world has never been so resolute to counter the threat of international terrorism, employing a combination of diplomatic, intelligence, economic, financial and military means.

On May 21st, as required by United States law, the U.S. Department of State, released its annual report to Congress, "Patterns of Global Terrorism 2001." And here today to discuss this edition of Patterns, we welcome our very distinguished guest, Ambassador Francis Taylor. Ambassador Taylor heads the Office of Counterterrorism at the U.S. Department of State, where he develops, coordinates and implements American counterterrorism policy, as well as coordinating all government efforts to improve counterterrorism cooperation with foreign governments. And we also welcome our participants who are standing by today in Tblisi, Bishkek and Tashkent. But before we join them, Ambassador Taylor, welcome to the program. It's a pleasure to have you.

AMB. TAYLOR: Good morning. It's my pleasure to be here.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Do you have any opening remarks for us before we turn our questions over to our friends overseas?

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, certainly as you said, Patterns 2001 was a very, very important document in trying to chronicle the efforts of the United States and our coalition partners to respond to the horrific events that occurred in our country on the 11th of September, where people from more than 78 countries other than America were also killed in that attack. And what we hope to do with this report is to put the challenges that we face from terrorism and the very considerable response that the world has made against terrorism into a perspective in one document that the world can have.

With that, I am pleased to take the questions of those that are prepared to give them.

MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, ambassador, thank you very much. Let's turn the first questions over to our friends standing by in Tblisi. Hello in Tblisi, please go ahead with your first question.

Q: (Inaudible.) (Technical difficulties.)

MR. FOUCHEUX: Okay, ambassador, I am afraid we are having a bit of technical problems with our hook-up with Tblisi. We'll get them in just a minute. We're going to move along now to our questioners who are standing by in Bishkek. Please go ahead in Bishkek. (Technical difficulties.) Ambassador, it appears that we are having just a tad of problems with our satellite, and I apologize. Let me ask a question if you don't mind.

AMB. TAYLOR: Sure, I'd be happy to.

MR. FOUCHEUX: I know that you have been working very diligently on this for some months now, and of course before that as well. How do you see our neighbor and friend countries responding around the world to our efforts here in the U.S.?

AMB. TAYLOR: I think the report very vividly describes a world that is unified on attacking al Qaeda and other terrorist groups of global reach. The response to the president's 20 September call for a coalition against terrorism, using, as your introduction indicated, the military, legal, intelligence, diplomatic and financial powers of the United States, as well as all of our coalition partners against this evil has been unprecedented in scope. And certainly in the early results, successful results we are achieving.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Great. And we are going to try to achieve communication with our posts overseas once more. Let's try Tblisi again. Please go ahead in Tblisi.

Q: Let me welcome you, Mr. Ambassador. It is our honor, great honor, to host you here in our studio. And let me introduce my guests in the studio. This is Mr. Valeri Khaburzania, the minister of security of Georgia.

AMB. TAYLOR: It's my pleasure to be with you this morning.

Q: Mr. Ambassador, my first question is as follows. Patterns of Global Terrorism 2001 is double the size of last year's report. Why do you think is that? Do you think it is due to the fact that there was much more information from last year, and details of September 11th was huge? Or do you -- (inaudible) -- attacks on the United States recently much spoken threats to New York landmarks such as the Brooklyn Bridge or Statue of Liberty?

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, certainly you're correct that Patterns is almost the size that it has been historically in the previous 21 years that we have issued it. Simply stated, the world has never seen the kind of horror and evil that we saw on the 11th of September. It was the most singly devastating terrorist attack ever to be reported in history. And so we wanted to make sure that this year's Patterns chronicled not only that event, but all the terrorism had occurred, and how the world had responded. And it took the pages that we added in order to really capture the focus that the world has indicated and has shown since 9-11 in its solidarity in the coalition against terror to end this kind of evil that we saw on 11 September.

Q: Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador. You in your comment on the Patterns mentioned that the four essential tenets of U.S. anti-terrorist policies remain unchanged: first, make no concessions with terrorists and strike no deals; bring terrorists to justice for their crimes; isolate and apply pressure on states that sponsor terrorists to force them to change their behavior; bolster the counterterrorist capabilities of these countries that work with the United States and require assistance. This is where Georgia, my country, falls under -- is that right? And my question is as follows: So how long will the cooperation between the United States and Georgia last, and under what kind of circumstances can they be disrupted or discontinued?

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, certainly we have enjoyed a long and very close relationship with the state of Georgia. The most recent announcement of our training-and-equip work with the Georgian military is just a continuation of that relationship that we have had for some years.

As you mentioned in your introduction, or your question, a major part of our campaign is bolstering the capability of nations around the world to fight terrorists within their own country, and certainly our train-and-equip efforts with Georgia are a part of that. We are also doing similar training with the government of Yemen, with the Philippine government to indeed bolster their capability. We believe that this campaign is more than just about the United States responding. It's about the world responding. In places where people want to respond and do not have the capacity to respond, we are committed to working with our partners in those nations to improve that capacity, so that terrorists will have no seam in which to operate anywhere in the world.

MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you in Tblisi for those questions, and we will be returning to you later in the program. Let's move on now to our guests in Tashkent. Please go ahead with your questions in Tashkent.

Q: Hello, we are very happy to have the chance to have the dialogue with you. In Tashkent it's evening now, and we are gathered together basically journalists from Uzbekistan and also from other countries. I am -- (inaudible) -- I represent the Youth Channel of Uzbekistan. And my question is: Do you consider that after the success of the first stage of the campaign in Uzbekistan is no longer in danger of the Islamic movement of Uzbekistan, which was based from Afghanistan? Or if a part of the organization has survived, will further steps be taken against it? And will the presence on the black list fit in the list of the State Department? Will it influence the cooperation between your country and Uzbekistan? Thank you.

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, good evening, Uzbekistan. It's my pleasure to be here with you. To respond to your question, I think we don't know yet about the impact of our military operations in Afghanistan on the viability of the IMU and whether it will have residual capability to continue the terrorism that it was involved in prior to 9-11 and prior to the commencement of our military operations. We will keep the IMU on our list of foreign terrorist organizations until such time as we are convinced that they are no longer a viable threat to use terrorism as a political tool.

Q: Good evening, I am -- (inaudible) -- an independent expert, and I have a very interesting question which possibly will be not within the framework of your expertise, Mr. Ambassador. The thing is that after the 11th of September relations between the U.S. and Uzbekistan were activated, were closer, and the cooperation was evidenced. But at the same time, very many experts, specifically in your country, connected cooperation with the process of reforms of our economy in Uzbekistan, our political and social system -- what is called liberalization. And apparently the mission of the IMF that came to Tashkent recently will study to what extent the memorandum signed between Tashkent and IMF signed in January will be realized. And how can we connect these processes with the further cooperation between our two countries? Maybe, sir, a complicated question, but thank you for your reply.

AMB. TAYLOR: You're correct -- it's a very thoroughly complicated question, and indeed I don't have the significant responsibilities of Assistant Secretary Jones who manages those aspects of our relationship with Uzbekistan.

I can say from the counterterrorism point of view Uzbekistan has been a very solid partner in this campaign against terrorism, and we have been greatly appreciative of the tremendous that the government of Uzbekistan has provided that has led to the -- certainly the initial successes that we have enjoyed militarily, as well as successes in the other aspects of the campaign.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you, Tashkent. Let's move on now to Bishkek for questions. Hello in Bishkek. Please go ahead with your questions.

Q: Hello. My name is -- (inaudible) -- I represent the government organization -- (inaudible). I have a question to Mr. Ambassador. In the West it's considered that Islam is responsible for international -- participates in international terrorism. However, the U.S. clearly has replied that after September 11th the security policy of the U.S. has changed. How does this reflect on the work of your office? With regard to Central Asia, besides annual conferences are there plans for specific aid to us as four countries that help the U.S. in combatting terrorism? The thing is that even in 1996 the secretary of Defense of the U.S. asked to activate work against terrorism intelligence. And in '96 the director of the CIA also said that the U.S. is a target for international terrorism. And we would like to hear what specific measures are being taken in order not to permit this to happen. Thank you.

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, let me first say good evening to you in Bishkek. And, secondly, let me respond to the first part of your question, and the notion that the United States is fighting against Islam or terrorism that has been perpetrated by Islam. This could be nothing further from the truth from our perspective. Our war with terror is not with Islam or people who are Islamic, or people who are Moslem or from the Arab world. Our war is with terrorist organizations like al Qaeda that attempt to hijack a religion, a great religion like Islam, for very evil purposes that the entire Islamic world has rejected as a true vision of what Islam is all about. This war is about going after evil people who bring violence on innocent civilians for political purposes -- not going against religions or certain people of certain ethnic groups.

With regard to the second part of your question, certainly from within my area of responsibility our commitment to the nations of Central Asia are to help improve capability to defend your nations as well as to join the international community in our fight against terrorism. And therefore anti-terrorism assistance training, and such training as that would certainly be forthcoming in terms of improving capacities to work with you both regionally and with your broader international partners. We will have a conference in Ankara, Turkey at the end of June, where we will discuss further strategies and ways in which our government can help the governments of the region, and how governments in the region can work more effectively together on our mutual focus on terrorism and eradicating terrorism from your region, and how terrorism from your region can be stopped from spreading to other regions around the world.

Q: Mr. Ambassador, I am Mr. -- (inaudible) -- I represent the Uzbek -- (inaudible) -- I am interested in asking will terrorist bases be attacked, as according to many officials of the U.S. are based in Iraq and connected with Bishkek -- bases in Bishkek. Are there any guarantees that they will not become hostages to this situation?

AMB. TAYLOR: Our fight is with al Qaeda, and our fight is with the remnants of al Qaeda and the Taliban that are currently operating in Afghanistan. And that's where we are focused today. We are not focused on any other type of activity other than, as President Bush said, Job One in al Qaeda, in eliminating that threat -- not only in your region, but the global threat of al Qaeda and its cells around the world. Indeed, the report that we released on the 21st gives clear evidence that al Qaeda is very widespread in its cell structure -- more than 1,600 people arrested in 95 countries to date. We have a major fight with al Qaeda, and that's where we're focused.

MR. FOUCHEUX: And we thank you in Bishkek. We'll be returning to you as well later in the program.

Let's return now to Tblisi for more questions. Please go ahead once again in Tblisi.

Q: Thank you very much. Patterns of Global Terrorism mentions that here were -- 3,547 people fell victim to 348 terrorist attacks. And 90 percent of these attacks and victims were killed on September 11th. Nevertheless, America suffered the most though there were persons from 78 different countries. Yet some politicians and analysts claim that the U.S. is taking advantage of the situation and is trying to enter countries like Afghanistan under the pretext of chasing bin Laden. So how can you comment on that?

AMB. TAYLOR: There has been I think no question among those who have studied the evidence that the perpetrators of the attack on 9-11 were members of al Qaeda, directed by the head of that organization, bin Laden, and his lieutenants from Afghanistan. The world recognized in U.N. Security Council Resolution 1267, and then 1333, that the Taliban and bin Laden and al Qaeda were using Afghanistan essentially as a terrorist training haven, and from that haven were sending out hundreds of terrorists to conduct the kind of evil that we saw on 9-11. We don't have to hide behind anything for the world to understand that it was bin Laden, it was the Taliban. And as we issued our demarche before our military operations began in Afghanistan to the Taliban to meet international standards or face the fate of bin Laden, in terms of being responsible for that act. So I don't know where one could draw the conclusion that we ware hiding behind anything other than our legitimate rights to defend our people, and indeed the legitimate rights of the world to respond to the kind of evil that was perpetrated on 9-11.

Q: Thank you very much for your answer, Mr. Ambassador. The only reason I ask you the question is that such kinds of comments or the attempts to provide moral support for terrorists. And this is it. Thank you very much.

AMB. TAYLOR: Thank you.

Q: Well, Patterns of Global Terrorism also mentions that 178 explosions happened on the oil pipeline, national oil pipeline in Colombia, which is 51 percent of the entire number of terror attacks. Oil pipelines -- Astana-Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan -- was initiated by the United States and was largely supported by the United States. Recently in Ankara, representatives and leaders from Georgia, Azerbaijan and Turkey held a summit. And what can you say about the security? To what extent these countries can rely on the United States on ensuring the security of the energy pipelines in this region?

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, certainly I was not at the meeting in Ankara that you describe. But, as you indicate, more than half of the terrorist events that we recorded in 2001 were perpetrated by terrorists against the oil pipeline in Colombia. Similarly, any time we are engaged in a major economic project, like the oil pipeline that we are working with U.N. countries in the region on, security has to be a major concern. This would be a very high probability terrorist target, and I know that our people in our international narcotics and law enforcement branch, as well as EUR are working with representatives on that project to ensure that as we move towards completion of it and its actual fruition that security is a major element of the program, and will ensure that once it's completed it can do the job that we all hope it will do, and not be disrupted by terrorists or other criminal elements seeking to use it as a tool for other political means.

Q: Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador. Another question. Patterns of Global Terrorism says that Georgia continues to face spillover violence from the Chechen conflict, including a short period of fighting in the separatist region of Abkhazia, and bombings by aircraft from the Russian territory on Georgia, under the guise of anti-terrorist operations. Georgia also contended with the international mujaheddin using Georgia as a conduit for financial and logistics support. And also the government of Georgia fails to control the eastern part of its territory, which is Pankisi Gorge. Do you think this issue will be raised in the summit between President Bush and President Putin?

AMB. TAYLOR: It would be inappropriate for me to speculate or to get out ahead of my president in the issues that he will discuss with President Putin, other than to say that as reports state we are quite concerned about the items that we outlined in the report, and certainly our training and equip operation that we talked about earlier we hope will be of assistance to the Georgians in improving their ability to handle the situation, particularly in the Pankisi Gorge area.

Q: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. During the Cold War, the two opposing camps were training special forces personnel who were specially trained in handling explosives and things like that. After the completion of the Cold War these people are out of work we would say. Do you think that the handwriting so to say of these people can be traced in any of these terrorist acts?

AMB. TAYLOR: I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand the first part of your question. Could you repeat it please?

Q: Sure. During the Cold War period, two opposing camps -- meaning the Soviet Union or Eastern bloc and the United States -- had their own special forces, and the personnel of these special forces were specially trained in fields like handling explosives, marksmanship, et cetera. Now these people are out of job since the Cold War period is completed. Do you think that these people are now employed by the terrorists? And can their handwriting be traced in any of these terrorist attacks?

AMB. TAYLOR: I think the essence of your question is with the end of the Cold War and the need for large numbers of military forces to have some of the people that have retired or left the military have gone into terrorist activity. I don't have any definitive evidence to indicate there are large numbers of former soldiers from our country or your country that have shifted their attention to terrorist activity. Of course you have people like in our country Timothy McVeigh that left the Army and eventually conducted the attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City some years ago. But I think that's an isolated event and not widespread.

MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, we thank you in Tblisi. Let's go back to Tashkent now for a series of questions. Please go ahead once again in Tashkent.

Q: Hello. My name is -- (inaudible) -- I represent the National Information Agency of Uzbekistan. Mr. Ambassador, you noted that Uzbekistan, like you said is a very strong partner of the United States. I would be interested to find out what in your opinion deserves this special evaluation in the foreign policy of Uzbekistan with regard to fighting terrorism.

AMB. TAYLOR: I'm not sure if I understand your question, when you say "special consideration for foreign policy." Could you elaborate a bit on that please?

Q: Sorry, I have in mind in the report it says that Uzbekistan is an important partner, and you said this as well. I would like to ask what specifically -- what initiatives of Uzbekistan would the U.S. approve, and what practical steps were positively evaluated by the United States?

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, certainly our ability to conduct military operations from Uzbekistan was critical to our military operations that are still ongoing in Afghanistan. And certainly our country has been very grateful for what the Uzbek government has done to allow us to work together towards the success of those military operations to date. And certainly as we continue our military operations we'll look forward to continued close cooperation.

Q: Good morning, Mr. Ambassador. I am -- (inaudible) -- I represent the Russian Information Agency, Itar Tass. My question is connected with the 12 conventions of the U.N. combatting terrorism. Tell me please, who besides the U.S. signed all these 12 conventions at this time in the world, and what countries did this? And are there among these countries such countries which President Bush called the "axis of evil" -- Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and also countries which also would belong to that group -- Syria, Sudan and Libya? And have they signed any of the conventions, or have they signed all of them? Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.

AMB. TAYLOR: You really tax my memory to ask me that question. I am afraid that my encyclopedia understanding of terrorism doesn't go that far to be able to articulate every nation in the world that has signed the 12 U.N. conventions. I believe that information is available on the U.N. website.

But let me shift my answer a bit to the notion of why it's important. We believe, as do I think most of the world believes, that the basis for international cooperation on terrorism rests with the 12 U.N. conventions; and, in addition to that, U.N. Security Council Resolution 1373, a binding resolution on the nations of the world to establish mechanisms to fight terrorism financing, and to work collectively together with the countries around the world to arrest and try, and where appropriate imprison those involved in terrorism. This serves as a fundamental basis, I think, for the long-term systems that we will need in our world to fight terrorism, to give them no place to hide, to allow them no sanctuary, no seam in which to operate.

So while I can't articulate all of the countries that have, we've encouraged, and continue to encourage, all countries to ratify and to implement those 12 conventions, as well as to move very quickly, working with the CTC in New York, to implement 1373. And those countries that don't have the capacity to do that, to let the CTC know what your needs are. And then for those countries that do have the capacity, to respond very swiftly to the needs of countries who want to improve their capacity and are unable to. This has been a very, very important part of our G-8 dialogue on counterterrorism; one of the major recommendations we have made to our leaders to move forward on this; and certainly will be a very, very important achievement in the global campaign when we get both 1373 and the 12 conventions signed and ratified and implemented.

Q: Good day. My name is -- (inaudible) -- I represent the TBN Radio, Uzbekistan Company. My question is connected with international terrorism and the fact that between India and Pakistan there is a worsening over Kashmir. This works for international terrorism and regional separatism and extremism. What is the position of the U.S. on that issue?

AMB. TAYLOR: The U.S. position has been made very clear to both of our friends in India and Pakistan that the solution to the challenges in Kashmir can only be resolved through dialogue between India and Pakistan. And dialogue is very difficult when tensions are as high as they are right now between India and Pakistan. And therefore we are working very hard with both sides on measures that can ease the tension, to allow the dialogue that we believe is necessary to occur. It's a very, very dangerous situation, and we caution both sides not to -- to be quite careful that there isn't a miscalculation that builds into needless bloodshed that would make further dialogue on the issues in that area much more difficult.

Q: Good morning, Mr. Ambassador. I am -- (inaudible) -- editor of the Radio Free Europe in Uzbekistan. What role do you think the Western media, including Radio Free Liberty and Radio Liberty, can play in the fight against terrorism? How can journalists be included in this battle, but keeping journalistic objectivity? Thank you.

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, certainly I think journalists play a key role in terms of public opinion, public knowledge of the threats that the world faces from terrorist groups, and the evil that such organizations can perpetrate against humankind by their terrorist event. I have been given to say that I believe -- and no one has corrected me on this -- that the events of the 11th of September were the first ever internationally broadcast terrorist attack while the attack was actually occurring. And the impact of that I think has been unbelievable in terms of the human connection -- regardless of where people were -- in seeing that attack, and in understanding the human dimension, the human tragedy of people who would for political reasons conduct such a horrific act. The media I think served the world well in broadcasting that as a part of what you do every day to keep the world informed. And we need to continue to work very hard, to honestly and objectively report the facts about terrorism, and the facts about how our campaign is unfolding against terror, and the facts about how strongly this coalition is focused on continuing this fight until it is concluded, and indiscriminate violence against innocent citizens is no longer a legitimate tool in the hands of anyone for political reasons.

MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, thank you in Tashkent. Our next stop, Bishkek once again. Hello again in Bishkek. Please go ahead with more questions. (Technical difficulties.) Okay, I am afraid we'll have to go back to Tblisi. In the meantime we will try to get Bishkek up. Please go ahead again in Tblisi now.

Q: Thank you very much. Mr. Khaburzania, minister of security of Georgia. I welcome you, Mr. Ambassador, and let me welcome all the participants of our interactive dialogue. I would like to extend our thanks to the U.S. administration from the government of Georgia for this positive evaluation of Georgia's modest attempts at fighting terrorists.

At the same time, allow me to ask you a question. We are very appreciative and grateful for the program train and equip. But do youthink the scope and level of train andequip will be enough for Georgia to enhance its capacity to bring down terrorism?

And another question: Can Georgia expect or hope for more cooperation and assistance from the United States? Is the United States going to implement other programs in Georgia?

AMB. TAYLOR: Well, Mr. Minister, it's my honor to be on this program with you, and certainly our report in Patterns attempted to capture the efforts of the Georgian government, as well as other governments around the world, in a very honest and forthright way.

Much of the train and equip issue is being handled by our Department of Defense, and they have, in working with your military, I think designed a program that both sides believe will be effective. This campaign that we are embarked on is a campaign that recognizes that the United States cannot alone take on terrorism, that it takes every country in the world working together, working with effective capability to respond to this threat. And therefore the U.S., as well as the world under 1373, is committed to helping all nations of the world improve their capacity to fight this scourge. And to the extent that the U.S. has available resources, we will use those resources as effectively as we can, with all of our partners, to improve capability, so that terrorists will find no haven, no seam upon which to move through to conduct the kind of evil again that we saw on 9-11.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you. And now on to Bishkek again. Hello again in Bishkek. Please go ahead. (Technical difficulties.) Fooled me again. Let's go to Tblisi once more. Tblisi, thanks for helping out. Please go ahead again.

Q: Thank you very much. We are very happy at this opportunity. Well now, as for the countries that are sponsoring terrorism and are financing terrorists, President Bush has named these countries more than once. Based on this, I would say that former President Carter's visit to Cuba is very interesting, as well as Bush's statement with respect to Cuba. So the United States is expanding the circle of its supporters and friends. Do you think the United States has capacity enough to fight terrorism worldwide, or the United States is to a greater extent relying on its partner in anti-terrorism international coalitions?

AMB. TAYLOR: This campaign is a campaign about the United States fighting terrorism all over the world. It's a campaign about the world working together to fight terrorism. And President Bush has made it very clear that this is a coalition against terrorism. And certainly the United States has reason to be quite anxious as a leader, given what happened in our country on 9-11. But really the success of this campaign will be judged by the ability of the world to work together, and by the ability of the world to join its capacities in law enforcement, intelligence, financial controls, economic and diplomacy, to sustain political will and to work together against this threat. The United States cannot do this alone and, indeed, fully recognizes that, and that is why our president called for a coalition.

Terrorists operate in the seams that are created when nations do not work together -- when our immigration laws are incompatible, when we don't share law enforcement data, when we don't work regionally, and looking at people moving through our regions and therefore ignore perhaps the beginning of a terrorist operation. And al Qaeda has demonstrated, both by our law enforcement efforts again has resulted in more than 1,600 arrests in 95 countries around the world -- how widespread these cells are, how deeply buried these cells are, requiring the attention of the entire world, so that we can continue to peel away the onion skin and find where these people are, and where appropriate to arrest them and to bring them to justice. So this is a long-term fight. It's a fight that is going to take the entire world to be engaged in, and be engaged in for many years, to bring to a successful conclusion the campaign that will end the type of evil again that we saw on 9-11.

MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, thank you. And we try to go to Bishkek again. Let's try that one more time. Hello again in Bishkek.

Q: Hello, ambassador. I am -- (inaudible) -- I represent the independent Kyrgyzstan newspaper -- (inaudible). Mr. Taylor, in Kyrgyzstan we have heard not only about events from Afghanistan, but also from Chechnya. And my question is: Having experienced the terrible events of 11 September and the counterterrorism operation in Afghanistan, has Washington changed its critical attitude to the efforts of the federal authorities in Chechnya? If it hasn't, then what do you think are the differences between the Chechen fighters and the al Qaeda and Taliban fighters? If there is a change, why until recently in the West, and specifically in the State Department, the representatives of Aslan Maskhadov have been received? Thank you.

AMB. TAYLOR: There are several aspects to your question, and I will try as I can to respond. First of all, the United States has recognized that there are or were mujaheddin that trained in Afghanistan -- indeed not only Chechens, but Arabs that were fighting in Chechnya. And that presented a threat in that area. We believe, however, that Chechnya is not just a counterterrorism problem. It is indeed there are moderate Chechens with whom the Russian Federation can have a political dialogue leading towards a settlement of the issues in that area, and we have been encouraging those moderates to separate themselves from the mujaheddin fighters. And there is an opportunity perhaps for that to happen now that the mujaheddin leader Katab (ph) has been killed. And we would look for that to be the case in the future.

The fact that we've recognized a linkage between training in Afghanistan and some of the fighting in Chechnya does not in any way diminish our concern about human rights abuses in Chechnya by the Russian Army. And indeed we have been quite buoyed by the actions taken by the Russian Federation government to address those issues, and we continue to address this issue every time that we meet with our colleagues in Russia. So change in recognizing the reality of where some of the instability comes from, yes. Change in our position in ultimate resolution of the situation there, no. We believe it's political and that it's through political dialogue that there will be an ultimate solution of the issues that we face or that the Russian Federation or the Chechens face in Chechnya.

Q: Hello, I'm -- (inaudible) -- I have the following question. Today the citizens of Central Asia are in difficult straits since the states violate human rights. And this causes stress in society. For example, in Kyrgyzstan there are peaceful protests that are suppressed by the government. They have special militia units that do this. And there are several questions: Who can guarantee that in a totalitarian regime they don't use this in saying they are fighting terrorism? And can the citizens expect support from the world society? In Kyrgyzstan there is another example of political game when the government takes rule number 20 directed against terrorism, but in fact it's controlling freedom of the press and information, in controlling editorial activity. And who can tell what really is taking place, combatting terrorism or combatting dissent? And shouldn't they call it by its proper name?

MR. FOUCHEUX: We've got a minute, ambassador. We are quickly running out of time. Can you make your answer brief, please?

AMB. TAYLOR: I'll try to. It's a very complicated question. But let me just state fundamentally that good human rights policy is good counterterrorism. Counterterrorism is not a smoke screen for human rights abuses, and we have made this clear with all the governments with which we deal. Human rights is the basic fundamental principle of our country, and it's a fundamental part of our foreign policy engagement with all countries around the world.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you very much, ambassador. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we are about to lose our satellite. And we thank Ambassador Francis Taylor for joining us, as well as our guests overseas and all of you for watching. Thank you very much. From Washington, I'm Rick Foucheux, good day.

(end transcript)

(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)

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