*EPF206 01/22/2002
Text: Powell Welcomes Pakistan's Actions Against Terrorism
(Advises Indians to take actions at "face value") (1980)

Secretary of State Colin Powell said that he is encouraged by recent statements made by the Indian and Pakistani governments and believes that conditions are now in place that can lead to the de-escalation of tensions between the two countries.

Powell was interviewed January 18 by India Star TV at the conclusion of his visits to Pakistan and India. "I will leave but I will continue talking to both sides to keep the process moving forward," he said.

Powell praised Pakistani President Musharraf's January 12 speech condemning terrorism and religious extremism, calling it a "very powerful speech."

"I think what we have seen in the last week is a very powerful speech by President Musharraf. He conveyed a vision of where he wants to take the Pakistani people. He spoke to the Pakistani people and he spoke to the international community, and I think he spoke to the Indian people as to where he is taking his country," Powell said.

Powell also applauded Musharraf's detention of over 1900 Pakistani extremists and the closure of their organizations. He noted that reports from India and Pakistan had indicated that the level of activity near the Line of Control had gone down.

In response to a question regarding how India should respond to President Musharraf's actions, Powell advised Indian leader to take Musharraf's actions at face value and make their own judgment.

"It is not for me to say to my Indian colleagues what judgment they should make about their security. But what was impressive about his speech was that he condemned all kinds of terrorism, terrorism emanating from anywhere -- whether from Pakistan or areas controlled by Pakistan. I spoke to General Musharraf about this and he said that was what he meant and there should be no confusion about it," Powell said.

On the issue of Musharraf handing over non-Pakistanis to the Indian government, Powell said that the Pakistani president is looking at the list that India submitted and is examining the legal aspects of the cases of those individuals. The Pakistani leadership had indicated that sending these individuals back to their homes for justice could be part of an appropriate action against these individuals.

"If we can keep moving down this diplomatic track, if we can continue to have the right exchange of dialogue at a distance such as President Musharraf's speech and the Indian response to that speech, if we can see actions across the Line of Control, if we can see these terrorist camps being shut down for real and not re-emerging and if we can see action on the list of 20 -- then I think conditions are in place for the beginning of a dialogue," Powell said.

Powell said that when Pakistan and India are ready to engage in a dialogue, the U.S. would play whatever role the two countries think it should play. He added that the U.S. would continue its long-term engagement in South Asia, building friendships that are "mutually beneficial to all these countries involved in our bilateral relations, and to the region at large."

Following is the transcript of Secretary Powell's 18 January interview by India Star TV:

(begin text)

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
January 20, 2002

INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN L. POWELL BY INDIA STAR TV
January 18, 2002
New Delhi, India

MR. RAJDEEP SARDESAI: Thank you very much, Secretary Powell, for joining us on Star News.

SECRETARY POWELL: My pleasure.

MR. SARDESAI: At the end of your visit, you have been sounding optimistic. Do you believe that the conditions have been created now for de-escalation of tensions between India and Pakistan?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think there are conditions in place now that can lead to de-escalation. I am encouraged by what I heard in Islamabad and am encouraged by what I heard in New Delhi. The first thing I heard while here was that both sides are anxious to find a diplomatic solution to this complex, this tense situation because it is dangerous. So, I will leave but I will continue talking to both sides to keep the process moving forward.

MR. SARDESAI: Do you believe the situation has come, where even at the border there can be de-escalation and the two sides can pull back?

SECRETARY POWELL: I don't think now. I think in due course that is something that will happen and can happen. I think what we have seen in the last week is a very powerful speech by President Musharraf. He conveyed a vision of where he wants to take the Pakistani people. He spoke to the Pakistani people and he spoke to the international community, and I think he spoke to the Indian people as to where he is taking his country.

We all understand at the same time the outrage felt by the Indian people over this horrible attack against democracy on December 13. We all express our sympathy and solidarity with the Indian people. We have to take note of what President Musharraf said and what Prime Minister Vajpayee has said and Foreign Minister Singh. We have to see action. Action must be matched with words. We have started to see action with respect to detention of people -- over 1900 Pakistani extremists were detained -- and they have closed down their organizations and their officers (inaudible). We have started to see across the line of control. (inaudible) instructions being given, orders being given, and I have seen some reporting in India and Pakistan which indicate that the level of activity has gone down now. And I don't know if it is temporary, but at some point one has to make a judgment and decide if these actions are real and we are on a way to a solution (inaudible) on our way to a political and military de-escalation.

MR. SARDESAI: You are suggesting that there is a decline in infiltration.

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, but what is more important is that the Indian side makes a decision for itself. (inaudible) I will wait and see what my Indian colleagues have decided.

MR. SARDESAI: Can we take the President of Pakistan at face value? Just a few months ago, just a few weeks ago he was actually endorsing the jehadis and calling them freedom fighters. Now you are saying it was an historic speech ... can we in India take the General at face value?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think what you should do in India is take the actions at face value and make your own judgment. It is not for me to say to my Indian colleagues what judgment they should make about their security. But what was impressive about his speech was that he condemned all kinds of terrorism, terrorism emanating from anywhere -- whether from Pakistan or areas controlled by Pakistan. I spoke to General Musharraf about this and he said that was what he meant and there should be no confusion about it.

Let's see what actions are taken because so far we have detected actions that bring value to those words. Words have to be matched by actions -- that is the Indian position and I think that it is a reasonable position to take.

MR. SARDESAI: Another touchstone for normalcy, which the Indians look at, is action on the ground. India has submitted a list to Pakistan. How important is that? Do you actually believe that President Musharraf is committed to handing over non-Pakistanis to the Indians?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, I can't say that. He has said that he has been looking at the list and the legal aspects of the cases of those individuals, has said is that he is looking at this list and examining it. He wants to know exactly who these people are and where they might be and what crimes they may have committed.

In his speech, he made references to the fact that there are people who are in Pakistan and that appropriate action will be taken. In my subsequent conversation with the Pakistani President and Pakistani leaders, I asked if that includes sending them back to their home for justice and they said that that could be part of appropriate action and so we take one day at a time -- one set of actions at a time.

President Musharraf has his own domestic decisions to consider as Prime Minister Vajpayee has. President Musharraf has taken other actions that are quite interesting separate from the crisis between India and Pakistan at the border. Actions such as changing the electorate system and so it is a very interesting set of events that are unfolding to achieve a vision that he has set for himself and the Pakistani people.

MR. SARDESAI: Mr. Secretary, you have to understand that there is cynicism and skepticism in this country. The evidence has been there for several years but it's only after December 13 that the Pakistanis have decided to act. Do you appreciate the cynicism in this?

SECRETARY POWELL: I appreciate it entirely, but the best way to wipe cynicism away is to see action taken. I am not suggesting that the Indian people should suspend disbelief or the cynicism that exists. Lets see what action is taken, because prior to recent events, Pakistanis would not have said what they have said last week. Now let's see what action is taken.

MR. SARDESAI: The other key issue that you are pushing is dialogue between the two countries. Are conditions emerging for such a dialogue or do you believe that it is in the distance?

SECRETARY POWELL: If we can keep moving down this diplomatic track, if we can continue to have the right exchange of dialogue at a distance such as President Musharraf's speech and the Indian response to that speech, if we can see actions across the Line of Control, if we can see these terrorist camps being shut down for real and not re-emerging and if we can see action on the list of 20 -- then I think conditions are in place for the beginning of a dialogue.

I think the Indian side has indicated that they are anxious to see us reach that point and once that dialogue begins, it has to be a dialogue that deals with all the outstanding issues between the two countries and not just one single issue.

MR. SARDESAI: So how far down the line do you see this dialogue happening?

SECRETARY POWELL: How close are we to that?

MR. SARDESAI: Yes.

SECRETARY POWELL: I wouldn't know how to give that kind of measurement. Let's just hope it's close.

MR. SARDESAI: What role would Washington play in this dialogue -- facilitator, mediator, or a helpful role? How would you describe your role? You are the first US Secretary of State to come here twice in the space of twelve weeks.

SECRETARY POWELL: My role or the role of the US will be to be helpful to our close friends, to begin a dialogue and therefore we will participate in whatever way that two friends think we should participate.

MR. SARDESAI: Will this be a continuous engagement with the sub-continent or do you think that this a temporary engagement caused by the events of December 13?

SECRETARY POWELL: There has been a long-term engagement of the United States and Pakistan, the United States and India, the United States and the new authority in Afghanistan and the United States and South Asia and Central Asia. We are not trying to find a new sphere of influence but just trying to develop and create friendships that will be mutually beneficial to all these countries involved in our bilateral relations, and to the region at large.

MR. SARDESAI: Thank you very much for joining us.

SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you very much.

(end text)

(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)

Return to Public File Main Page

Return to Public Table of Contents