Topic: Islam in the American Armed Forces
Host: Shameem Rassan (Through Interpreter)
Guests: Rear Admiral A. Byron Holderby (sp), U.S. Navy, Chief of Navy Chaplains, and Member, Armed Forces Chaplain Board
Imam Malik Abdel Matoli bin Noel (sp), Lieutenant, U.S. Navy

Worldnet "Global Exchange"
United States Information Agency
Television and Film Service of Washington, D.C.

Washington -- In recognition of the growing role of Islam in America, the Department of Defense in 1987 began the process of bringing Muslim chaplains into the U.S. military services. The first Muslim chaplain was appointed to the U.S. army in 1993 and in 1996 a chaplain was appointed to the U.S. Navy.

Two chaplains -- Rear Admiral A. Byron Holderby, Chief of Navy Chaplains and a member of the Armed Forces Chaplain Board, and Imam Malik Abdel Matoli bin Noel, Lieutenant in the U.S. Navy, stationed in Norfolk, Virginia, and the first Muslim chaplain to be commissioned in the United States Navy -- discussed the growth of Islam in the United States, and specifically in the U.S. military, during a USIA "Global Exchange" program on January 13.

Asked if the Pentagon's move to bring Muslim chaplains into the services was a catalyst that helped people have a better understanding of Islam, Admiral Holderby explained that a Muslim chaplain's principal responsibility is to "provide for Muslim men and women in the military. But another part of what he does is also to help other chaplains understand Islamic faith. ..." He added that the chaplains are also responsible for facilitating worship for other faith groups ... and that all chaplains "care for all."

"My mission, as I see it, is to ... educate the Muslim community in the military as well as the non-Muslim community in the military, so that together we can have a productive dialogue and relationship," Imam Noel said. "I think my induction into the United States Navy has enhanced that mission. It has proven to be successful to date."

Imam Noel pointed out that although he is the first Muslim chaplain in the United States Navy, he has served in the Navy for 15 years and has practiced Islam since 1989. "So I can tell you with no reservations whatsoever that I have had command support throughout my time in the Navy for making my prayers, for fasting, and supporting me in anything I needed to do in the practice and observation of Islam. ...

"And it is that community of us here that is supporting those who may have a lack of scholarship and knowledge of Islam, who maybe have reservations because of the misconceptions and misnomers that are prevalent in the world today, that in supporting them and educating them we are building a very good community of Muslims here. And we are a part of the inter-faith community of the United States of America. ... And it is being extremely well received," he said.

He noted that a message was sent throughout the armed forces "encouraging all commanders to be lenient with all Muslim personnel during the sacred month of Ramadan so that they can participate fully in the fast, that they will be relieved of strenuous training requirements, that they will have time to leave the command for Iftar. ... And so the signal is there that the United States armed forces supports it, they embrace it and they encourage everyone to recognize it and make every way possible for Muslims to observe our religious requirements and duties."

"As far as how far can we ascend or advance in the service, the sky's the limit," Imam Noel said. "There are no hindrances on my promotion or any other Muslim's promotion other than based on our performance and our commitment to duties. So if a person becomes proficient and is competitive in what they do, then the opportunity for growth and development is always going to be there."

In response to questions about how the United States deals with Muslims in the country while facing opposition from Muslims outside its borders, the chaplains agreed that there is no conflict between their ability to practice their religious faith in the U.S. armed services "while there are other things going on in the world."

Asked if he had difficulty persuading Muslims that the airstrikes against Iraq early in the month of Ramadan were justified, Admiral Holderby responded: "We never tried to speak to whether or not it was a just cause. This would be something I think that probably was going on outside of normal worship and normal religious considerations. ... So our focus is to continue to help people in their relationship with God. And the political side of that is just something that we don't work in very much."

While acknowledging that the African American community is the largest ethnic group within the United States embracing Islam, Imam Noel said "the white community, the Hispanic community and the Asia community are also very active and converting in great numbers at the time in the United States of America."

Following is the transcript of the program:

MS. RASSAN: Viewers, this is Shameem Rassan welcoming you to "Global Exchange."

Demographers say Islam is one of the fastest-growing religions around the world. This growth is clearly seen across America too, in schools and universities, and within each of the U.S. military services.

Before we begin our program, let's take a look at how some Arab Americans are observing the holy month of Ramadan in the Washington, D.C. area.

(Begin videotape.)

ANNOUNCER: Muslims in America are joining their brethren in the world in celebrating the holy month of Ramadan. In Ramadan Muslims fast from sunrise to sunset. But in America Ramadan has a different flavor.

Wahil Haroh (sp), an American Muslim leader, explains:

WAHIL HAROH: Because you celebrate it with Muslims from all over the world, and this is something that probably we are not exposed to back home in let's say Iraq or Egypt. Here we celebrate Ramadan with the Malaysians and with the Pakistani Muslims and with the Arab Muslims and with the American Muslims, and so it is an international celebration.

ANNOUNCER: The excitement about Ramadan in America also extends to the children. Lauri Jagled (sp) is an American-born Muslim.

LAURI JAGLED: Right now we are trying to come up with different ideas to make Ramadan more exciting and appealing to the children.

ANNOUNCER: But Ramadan is not just an exciting celebration. Afifa Sayed (sp) came to the United States from Kashmir when she was a child.

AFIFA SAYED: And also more than that Ramadan has become a very relaxing time. It's a time where even though you are fasting, which means there is a lot of physical hardship so to speak -- not really, but it's a little bit harder that way -- it is still a lot more spiritual.

WAHIL HAROH: You are hungry the whole day, and you do really feel for those people who are hungry for much longer periods of extended periods of their life. We fast from sunrise to let's say sunset. Well, there are people who are practically fasting for days and months. And in the month of Ramadan you do feel -- you are conscious of really the suffering of others.

AFIFA SAYED: Keeping that in mind and keeping my brothers and sisters in Bosnia, as well as Somalia, as well as Palestine -- there is almost nowhere in the world that I can think of that there isn't something going on.

ANNOUNCER: Afifa's (sp) feelings are shared by many other Muslims in America and elsewhere. Mahidin Atiya (sp) is an Islamic scholar in the Washington area.

MAHIDIN ATIYA: (through interpreter) It's a sad Ramadan -- very sad indeed.

ANNOUNCER: Next Ramadan, however, Mr. Atiya (sp) hopes things will be better for the Muslims.

MAHIDIN ATIYA: (through interpreter) I hope democracy and freedom of speech and of religion will emerge next Ramadan in our countries with a bigger share.

ANNOUNCER: The Muslims in America are also working to meet another challenge: how to predetermine the start of Ramadan technologically rather than by visual observation of the moon. Mr. Ali Ramadan (sp) is an Islamic scholar.

ALI RAMADAN: (through interpreter) Today we are working on finding a method based on accurate knowledge by which we can determine the start of Ramadan and when the moon is born.

ANNOUNCER: For almost 30 days Muslims in the United States will be observing one of Islam's main religious practices and philosophies.

(End videotape.)

MS. RASSAN: Today we will talk about the growth of Islam in the United States, and more specifically how Islam is growing in the U.S. military services. You are fortunate to have two experts with us today who can shed light on this topic. Rear Admiral A. Byron Holderby (sp), U.S. Navy, is the chief of Navy chaplains within the United States Navy and a member of the armed forces chaplain board. Also joining us from the naval station in Norfolk, Virginia, is Imam Malik Abdel Matoli bin Noel (sp), lieutenant, U.S. Navy. Lieutenant Noel is a convert to Islam and the first Muslim chaplain to be commissioned in the United States Navy. I want to welcome you both to "Global Exchange."

I would also like to welcome our viewers around the world, and invite you to call us with any questions you may wish to ask on Islam in the U.S. military or related matters. If you are calling with a question in Arabic, please call us collect at 202-205-9066. But if you are calling with a question in English, please call us collect at 202-205-9001.

We also have a number of broadcasters standing by. But let me first ask -- let me ask Admiral Holderby (sp) to speak to us briefly about how the Pentagon managed to appoint an imam or religious chaplain in the U.S. military. Is this due to the Islamic lobby in the United States, or because Pentagon officials are convinced that there has to be some justice or equality between the various religions?

ADM. HOLDERBY: I think that probably it's because the military forces began to realize that there were a number of Muslim military people, and so it was, I believe, about 1981 that the services approached the -- actually it was at that time the Islamic Society of North America, and suggested to them that maybe they would want to begin to think in terms of putting a chaplain into the various services. They responded to that. They were officially recognized in 1987 as what we call an "endorsing body" -- that is to say they put the name forward.

In the military chaplaincy the whole business of becoming a chaplain begins with the faith group themselves. The faith group will educate and then put a name forward. If they have met the educational qualifications, which for all faith groups is really three years of post-graduate work, or 90 hours of graduate work. Once they have met that then they are accepted into the chaplaincy of one of the militaries. And they will join -- in the case of my service, the Navy, they will join about 110 other faith groups that are represented in the chaplain corps.

MS. RASSAN: Thank you, Admiral Holderby (sp). And now let's go to Imam Malik bin Noel (sp) in Norfolk. Welcome. I would like to find out about your personal story of adopting Islam. How did you make that decision?

IMAM NOEL: It was a spiritual decision in the sense that I was raised to always have a relationship with God. As I grew and tried to become more intimate in that relationship, Islam was what was revealed to me in my heart. And so the transition was spiritual. And it was something because of that that I've held firmly to.

MS. RASSAN: Let me now go back and follow up on the first question I raised with Admiral Holderby (sp). Do you believe, admiral, that this step that was taken by the Pentagon will be a catalyst helping individuals in the U.S. armed forces have a better understanding of the religion, and also perhaps help American citizens understand Islam better?

ADM. HOLDERBY: Yes, both of those things. I think that part of what Chaplain Noel does is to provide for Muslim men and women in the military. But another part of what he does is also to help other chaplains understand Islamic faith, and so that because we have within the chaplain corps a policy which is true of every single chaplain -- Chaplain Noel and the other 900 of us -- that the first thing we are responsible for when we come into the military is to provide for our own faith group. But we are also responsible for facilitating worship for other faith groups, so that if Chaplain Noel was the only chaplain assigned to a particular base, then he would be responsible for making sure that Christian and Jewish religion was also facilitated and could take place on that base. He wouldn't do it himself, but he would be sure that it took place.

And then the third thing that all chaplains do is care for all. So that's a process that we have been doing now for 223 years of working together. And it's very important to us. I think that actually ministry in the military services is probably a long ways ahead of perhaps even the civilian sector in terms of appreciating and working with each other.

MS. RASSAN: Imam Malik (sp), what do you think about that? Was such a step that was taken by the Pentagon in fact a catalyst that helped people have a better understanding of Islam?

IMAM NOEL: I believe so. I concur 100 percent with Admiral Holderby (sp) certainly. My mission as I see it is to do exactly what he iterated in his statement, is to educate the Muslim community in the military as well as the non-Muslim community in the military, so that together we can have a productive dialogue and relationship. I think my induction into the United States Navy has enhanced that mission. It has proven to be successful to date.

MS. RASSAN: Then do I take it then that you have not met with any difficulties that you mention? In other words, there is in fact -- it is now easy among chaplains and individuals in the military find it easier now to understand Muslim?

IMAM NOEL: I've met with no difficulties. First and foremost, I would say that every member of my corps has been very supportive in mentoring me, in supporting me, and facilitating to the needs of the Muslim community. I have been allowed to operate with freedom, both with the religious community as well as the Navy at large -- Marine Corps and Coast Guard. And so I can do nothing but salute what we are doing here, and I am proud and honored to be a part of it.

MS. RASSAN: Thank you. Now viewers we go to Telelamir (sp) in Beirut. Please go ahead with your questions.

QUESTION: Greetings on the occasion of the holy month of Ramadan, and we wish all the Muslims a happy and blessed feast.

With regard to the situation in the Lebanese armed forces the situation in the United States is not comparable to what we have in Lebanon. In other words, there are no chaplains representing the various religions in Lebanon's armed forces. This means that individuals in the Lebanese army suffer from the same divisiveness among the sects as well as the civil community at large. In Lebanon the fact that no chaplains are introduced into the army has an historical basis, because there are 14 different sects in Lebanon, 14 different religious sects in Lebanon. Almost all the different sects that can be found in the world can be found in Lebanon also, and they are sectarian.

In addition, Lebanon, as is well known, is a country that was ruled by foreigners for 400 and 500 years. And before that it was fragmented, and it was divided by conflict and struggles. All of this history has hurt Lebanon. The occupiers, those who occupied Lebanon, starting with the Turks and the Turkish conquest, until modern imperialism, played the sectarian card and caused a variety of sectarian conflicts, and that resulted -- had many negative effects on the people and the society and the state of Lebanon.

MS. RASSAN: Forgive me if we can have your question please -- if you could go ahead with your question please?

QUESTION: There were fears that the introduction of religious representatives in the army would exacerbate the religious conflict and the sectarian strife, because our history is not like that of the United States where there is balance and harmony among the people, among various faiths and points of view.

MS. RASSAN: Forgive me, if what you are trying to say is a comparison between the U.S. armed forces and the Lebanese armed forces, if there is a question about that, to help us understand -- if this is the question -- we're trying to find out the subject of your question.

QUESTION: We can also say something else. An individual who is a member of the armed forces is usually more religious than a civilian and is a devout practitioner of his faith, in his professional life and also in his family life. We see that members of the armed forces pray regularly and do so voluntarily and without fear or intimidation.

We would like to ask is the chaplain, the position of a chaplain in the U.S. armed forces a permanent position, or is it a mission that is entrusted to that individual who serves in another capacity in the armed forces besides being a chaplain? Thank you.

ADM. HOLDERBY: Actually the position of chaplain in the U.S. armed forces is a permanent position. That is to say they are brought in to do specifically the work of a chaplain. They have the same rights and abide by the same rules as every other officer in the military forces so that they are free to put in a full career in the U.S. military, and then to at the end of a career to retire from the military services, and then oftentimes go on and work some in the civilian community. But every chaplain is exactly like every other officer in the military forces with the exception that they are there for the purpose of facilitating the free expression of religion -- each person's religion. So that's something the military cherishes, and that's why we have 110 to 115 different faith groups in the military. I hope that answers your question.

MS. RASSAN: Are there any -- do you have any comments, Imam Malik Noel (sp)?

IMAM NOEL: (Off mike.)

MS. RASSAN: Let's continue and go back to Telelamir (sp) and ask them do you have any other questions that you would like to address to one of our two guests?

QUESTION: We saw the positive results of the presence of a chaplain in the armed forces. Are there any -- please tell us candidly are there any negative aspects of having a chaplain in the armed forces? We would like to hear the opinions of both your guests.

MS. RASSAN: Let's ask this question to Imam Malik (sp). Although we addressed this topic a little bit, but let me ask Imam Malik (sp) are there any negative aspects, as the question from Telelamir (sp) suggests, to serving as a chaplain in the army?

IMAM NOEL: There are no negatives that I can articulate at this point. Again, I am very new in the chaplain corps, so everything for me is extremely exciting. The things that I see as a member of this corps -- what it personifies is a corps of people who are so pronounced in their religious beliefs that there is room in that security to embrace each other. And we impact the armed forces as a whole with those ethics and that moral foundation that adds to the character of the overall United States armed forces. So I see no negatives in that. I see only room for growth and further development.

MS. RASSAN: Is this because perhaps Imam Malik you are not the first religious chaplain to be in the Navy? And Rear Admiral Holderby (sp) may also comment on this. Has there been I think in 1993 the first Islamic chaplain was appointed -- he was appointed by Captain Rashid Mohammed. Did that make it a little bit easier for Imam Malik to assume his responsibilities?

ADM. HOLDERBY: I'm sorry, I just really didn't pick up the question. I was hearing it, but not totally. Could you ask me again?

MS. RASSAN: Yes. I have a follow-up. When Imam Malik bin Noel (sp) said that he encountered no difficulties in practicing Islam in the armed forces, was that due to the fact that the first Islamic chaplain was appointed by 1993? I think it was Captain Rashid Mohammed who was appointed in 1993 in North Carolina. Did this make it easier for Imam Malik, and did it make it easier to practice and understand Islam?

ADM. HOLDERBY: That might be a little difficult for me to tell you because I don't know whether or not Chaplain Mohammed would say that he ran into any problems in the Army when he first came in. I think that the way was probably pretty clear because we have pretty much a long history of facilitating for each other and working with each other. And so I really don't think that even Chaplain Mohammed would say -- and I can't speak for him, but I don't think he would say that he ran into a lot of problems. When Chaplain Noel came into our service he was welcomed. In fact, before he could even go to our chaplains school he was sent off to take care of Kurdish refugees that were coming in there, and he spent practically a year -- maybe it was a year -- away from his family doing that ministry before we could even get him back and get him into chaplains school and get him fully apprised of what the military chaplaincy was all about. I think he probably had an easier time of it because he had served in the military, in the Navy, before he went back and studied and came back in as a chaplain. But I think the time was right. And in 1987 or '83, when Chaplain Mohammed came in, I think that a Muslim chaplain was welcomed as just one more major faith group in the military and needed to be taking care of our people.

MS. RASSAN: Admiral Holderby (sp), you mentioned several times that there is a religious corps or a religious school. What are the topics that are taught in that school and are there any rules and regulations that are part of the U.S. military forces rules and regulations that apply there?

ADM. HOLDERBY: The chaplain school that I mentioned does not attempt to teach any type of theology for a given denomination or faith group. The faith groups themselves teach their chaplains the tenets of their own beliefs. So they bring that with them when they come in.

The chaplain school is put there really to familiarize people coming in who have been civilians most likely, up until the time they are accepted in as an officer and a chaplain, to familiarize them with the culture, the military culture. They come to understand that there will be times when they will be deployed and away from families, and what does that mean and how do they cope with those kinds of things? It talks to them about the various problems that take place as a result of deployments. Chaplains need to be trained in, say, communications skills, how to write letters back and forth to each other when you're away from home. They have to be pretty well schooled in basic ethics and what that means. So there are a number of subjects, along with just simply familiarizing them with the military culture. And that's what the chaplains school is about. It always runs 11 weeks, and it also introduces them to the fact that in the Navy the chaplains will serve with the Marines, and so there is a part of that time that is devoted to what is it like in the Marine Corps. And so they know that -- they may not be assigned to the Marines right away, but they will have had that background when they go in there. They also serve the Coast Guard too by the way.

MS. RASSAN: Imam Malik, there are certain duties in the Islam religion, like fasting, praying and undertaking the pilgrimage. With regard to the rules and regulations of the U.S. military, do they allow observance of these duties?

IMAM NOEL: We do. I am happy to report to our audience last year, at the insistence of my commanding officer, we built the first mosque for the practice of Islam on a naval station. This mosque has been visited by a number of people from around the world. Hampton Roads here in Norfolk represents a large international community, primarily Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, India -- (inaudible) -- and so people have broadcast from here back to their homes that the United States military has embraced Islam. They have called upon brothers and sisters if you are in this area to come visit and at least make one prayer in this mosque. Last year my naval base, Naval Station Norfolk, hosted the Id al-Iftar (sp), which was represented or observed by 2,500 Muslims here in this area, and they were welcomed on the base by the commander of the base and the commanding officers of Naval Station Norfolk and Naval Air Station Norfolk. We are now talking and making preparations to do the same prayer service at the end of this Ramadan period. We have the five daily prayers on base. We are doing Tatawi (sp) prayer each evening on base. We have brothers and sisters who are spending the night in the mosque on the base in the observance of Lailat al-Qabath (sp).

So there are things going on that are really enhancing and developing the Muslim community. And as we do these things it's very educational in the sense of Allah to the non-Muslim community. There have been so many misconceptions and misnomers about what Islam is that now we are actually at the forefront of providing a realistic and positive education of who we are and what Islam is about. And it is being extremely well received.

If I may broach briefly on a prior question as to any negative things that I may be seeing in the military, I am the first Muslim chaplain in the history of the United States Navy. However, as the admiral touched on, I am not new to the United States Navy. I was enlisted for 15 years, and I practiced Islam since 1989. So I can tell you with no reservations whatsoever that I have had command support throughout my time in the Navy for making my prayers, for fasting, and supporting me in anything I needed to do in the practice and observation of Islam. And so I would not be cosmetic in the way I relate the facts to you, but I am very happy and proud to report that I have been supported. And I think Muslims who step up and do what we are supposed to do as Muslims, which is to fear none but Allah, have had no problems either. And it is that community of us here that is supporting those who may have a lack of scholarship and knowledge of Islam, who maybe have reservations because of the misconceptions and misnomers that are prevalent in the world today, that in supporting them and educating them we are building a very good community of Muslims here. And we are a part of the inter-faith community of the United States of America.

MS. RASSAN: Let's now go back once again to Beirut and Telelamir (sp) Television. Please go ahead with your question.

QUESTION: I would like to ask several questions, and maybe they complement each other. How can the secular system of the United States be reconciled with the observation of religious duties in Army barracks? How can also an average citizen receive religious and spiritual guidance in his community? Also, how can there be equality between each religious group as it practices its own faith and rights? Doesn't that have an effect on national unity? I think my questions are clear and I would like candid answers to them.

MS. RASSAN: First let's give Admiral Holderby (sp) a chance to answer the questions.

ADM. HOLDERBY: The first question I think has to do with why there is a chaplain corps, and that is we have a chaplain corps and we bring people into the chaplain corps to facilitate the free exercise of religion. And so that is our business to facilitate that.

Now, there is certainly a separation of church and state in our country, and so we make available opportunities for people to worship whatever their faith group. We don't force people to go to those. So there is a difference between the secular community -- if someone is from a secular community and does not want to take part in a religious observance, certainly they don't have to do that. I guess the word "available" is probably the best way I could put it. We make worship available to those who would want to take advantage of it.

How would they -- people within our community get spiritual guidance? It would usually be through a chaplain. A chaplain is available to our people wherever they are. If we send people out on ships, we send a chaplain out with them. If we send people to other countries, there's a chaplain there with them. If we send people to various bases around this country, there is a chaplain there with them. So there is always someone there to provide spiritual guidance.

Now, if I were by myself for instance at a base and a Muslim military person came into me and wanted to talk strictly about their faith, then I would not be able to answer some of those questions, but I would find someone who could. I would go into either Chaplain Noel and ask for guidance from him, or I would find a Muslim imam in the community and refer this person to them. So I think that is the way we do that.

And the equality issue -- I'm not sure that I remember exactly what the equality issue question asked. I'm sorry, I got the first two and now I'm struggling with the third. All -- I don't know if I'm not answering this as you asked it, but all faith groups they are respected equally. There is an equality. The person who comes into the United States military as a chaplain and is unable to do that, to respect other religious traditions equally, probably won't remain in the military as a chaplain for very long, because that will quickly become obvious and will blunt or hinder the kind of religious service that they are asked to do. I hope I asked that question properly. You asked me to answer you honestly, and I was struggling a little bit with remembering what the third question was.

MS. RASSAN: I would like to thank our colleagues in Beirut, Telelamir (sp). Many happy returns on the month of Ramadan.

Let's now go to ANN Television, or Arab News Network in London. Welcome.

QUESTION: Thank you. My question to Admiral Holderby (sp) is: When was Islam recognized as an official religion in the U.S. military?

ADM. HOLDERBY: The Department of Defense recognized the Islamic religion to the extent that they were prepared to bring chaplains on board in 1987 I believe. Dialogue had begun previous to that, around 1981. But officially recognized as what we call an endorsing community, an endorsing agent, a community now prepared to put someone forward to be a chaplain in the military, took place in 1987. It took a little more time for them to be able to get the chaplain educated to -- not educated, but to meet the educational requirements to come into the service. And as I recall I believe the first one was with the army, Chaplain Mohammed, and he came in in 1993. Our first in the Navy, Chaplain Noel, came in in 1996.

MS. RASSAN: Of course we are still with Arab News Network. We continue with them.

QUESTION: The question is still to Admiral Holderby (sp). There is a psychological barrier between Muslims and the West, and this goes back to the Crusades and was exacerbated by things like the Islamic Revolution in Iran. Doesn't the U.S. administration find itself in a crisis when it is dealing with the Muslims in the country and yet facing opposition from Muslims outside its borders?

ADM. HOLDERBY: No, I don't think it does, because the Muslims in the country and serving in the military are fully U.S. citizens, and as such they will receive the same freedom to worship that is guaranteed under the First Amendment of our Constitution as anyone else. So as far as religious practice and the ability to do that in the military, that's simply not a problem. It may be perceived as such in terms of how they might go about that, while there are other things going on in the world. And I really probably can't speak to the other things that are going on in the world, but I can tell you that there is no conflict in terms of our ability to respect each other's faith.

I think you know we have to make a very strong distinction between the Islamic faith and maybe some of the other things that happened in the world. The Islamic faith is certainly as much a part of our chaplain corps as any other faith group that we have.

MS. RASSAN: We would like to hear a comment from Imam Malik bin Noel. Please go ahead.

IMAM NOEL: Could you ask me the question again please?

MS. RASSAN: The question -- if our colleague from ANN is still with us, would you please repeat your question to Imam Malik?

QUESTION: There have been hostilities between Muslims and the West for a long time, starting with the Crusades, and now recently with the Islamic revolution in Iran and what happened in Afghanistan. Now the U.S. administration -- doesn't it find itself in a crisis between its cooperation and its tolerance of Muslims in the United States and the hostility and opposition of Muslims outside the borders of the United States?

IMAM NOEL: First, I would like to concentrate my answer on my area of discipline. U.S. policy and politics is not my area of discipline. My area of discipline is theology and spirituality as it relates to the chaplains corps. What I can say in representation of that is here in Norfolk, at the facility where I work, which is the largest naval base in the United States Navy, we have four facilities under one roof. In a sense that they are housed in the same complex, they are separate one from the other. But we have a Catholic Church, Our Lady of Victory, which seats 700 people. We have a Protestant worship facility, Commodore Levi (sp) Chapel, which seats the same number. We have a synagogue which is represented in the name of Commodore Levi (sp), and we have Mastaldalah (sp) all under one roof.

Last year during the Id al-Adah (sp), when we were observing the hajj and those sacrifices, the Christian and Jewish communities were also recognizing and observing religious holidays. And so under one roof you had thousands of people praying to the same God. So this is the United States -- in the sense of its religious applications and practices, and specifically evidence as to what's going on in the United States armed forces that all of these people celebrating in multiple ways the same God under the same roof embracing each other as children of God and in brotherhood.

MS. RASSAN: We resume questions from ANN.

QUESTION: Another question to Imam Noel. What are the facilities that are offered to Muslim soldiers while they are in service? And are they equal to those that are offered to their counterparts of other religious faiths?

IMAM NOEL: I believe so. I mean, we are looking at first and foremost educating a predominantly non-Muslim military as to the needs of Muslims. So it is my responsibility and the responsibility of other Muslims -- in this case United States Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard -- to make them aware of those things in a responsible way, if we expect to receive those things on an equal basis.

We are meeting the prayer requirements. We are certainly observing the fast. We have been embraced as to the needs for prayer facilities, literary things, a complete library. So I mean Islam -- Allah did not mean for it to be difficult. So the things that we need we feel at liberty to request. I have received myself personally support in receiving those things, so I think we are being treated fairly and equally.

MS. RASSAN: Perhaps there may be another question to Imam Malik about the same topic. The Islamic world today is going through the holy month of Ramadan. Does a Muslim soldier actually go through training during this month?

IMAM NOEL: Admiral Holderby's (sp) office and the other chiefs of chaplains throughout the armed forces send out a message to all command at this time first saying Ramadan -- (inaudible) -- and then encouraging all commanders to be lenient with all Muslim personnel during the sacred month of Ramadan so that they can participate fully in the fast, that they will be relieved of strenuous training requirements, that they will have time to leave the command for Iftar and for -- (inaudible) -- and so I think we are being treated very, very well in that these things are being advertised and supported at the highest levels and disseminated down. And so the signal is there that the United States armed forces supports it, they embrace it and they encourage everyone to recognize it and make every way possible for Muslims to observe our religious requirements and duties.

MS. RASSAN: We are still in contact with ANN in London.

QUESTION: My question is for Admiral Holderby (sp). When you were bombarding a Muslim country like Iraq early in the month of Ramadan, this is something that arouses the anger of Muslims. Did you find any difficulties persuading Muslims that this was a just cause indeed?

ADM. HOLDERBY: We never tried to speak to whether or not it was a just cause. This would be something I think that probably was going on outside of normal worship and normal religious considerations. I don't know whether Chaplain Noel was asked those kinds of question or not. I don't think that for the most part he was, and I certainly wasn't. So our focus is to continue to help people in their relationship with God. And the political side of that is just something that we don't work in very much. So I am hesitant to even say much more than that, because that's not an area of my expertise.

QUESTION: Admiral Holderby (sp), is a Muslim soldier given a day off on special religious holy days, for example the day for breaking the fast, which is coming up soon? Does that happen in the U.S. military?

ADM. HOLDERBY: It absolutely does. Any soldier or sailor may ask for a day off for religious observance. And unless there is some military necessity that would keep that from happening that would be granted. It's actually even -- a soldier or sailor has a right to ask for a 30-day -- what's called no-cost temporary duty for 30 days to attend the hajj, if they wish to do that. And if that does not interfere with military operations then that would most likely be granted.

I would like to, if I may, just pick up on something which was addressed to Captain Noel, and it had to do with were the supplies and so forth adequate and that type of thing. We have what we call a logistics supply system. And in that logistics supply system we have pretty much everything that every denomination, every faith group, would want. For Muslims it would probably be things like the Koran and prayer rugs, perhaps -- (inaudible) -- those types of things are stocked and can be ordered for religious observances and that type of thing. So that is very much already and has been for a while a part of the system.

MS. RASSAN: We continue with ANN in London.

QUESTION: My question is for Imam Noel. What is the percentage of Muslims in the U.S. military and are there specific conditions for them joining the Army? And is there any highest level to which they could aspire reaching?

IMAM NOEL: As far as percentages, I don't know that we actually know. Again, this is something that is relatively new. For myself and a number of Muslims, we overtly profess who we are and we practice Muslim freely. There's still people who do not do that, and again that's a part of the educational process and their own personal growth and development in Islam.

As far as how far can we ascend or advance in the service, the sky's the limit. There are no hindrances on my promotion or any other Muslim's promotion other than based on our performance and our commitment to duties. So if a person becomes proficient and is competitive in what they do, then the opportunity for growth and development is always going to be there.

MS. RASSAN: Please go ahead ANN with more questions.

QUESTION: Also this question is for Imam Noel. Don't you think that the spread of Muslim among African Americans is much larger and greater than among white Americans? Don't you think this has something -- maybe this has something to do with the ethnic social and economic considerations and factors?

IMAM NOEL: Negative. And while I appreciate the question, the answer is no. There are a number of people who have embraced Islam, and the African American community is certainly the largest ethnic group within the United States embracing Islam. But the importance here, as anyone knows, of any faith community is that you not embrace it because of social dynamics, because of political platform, because it's a faddish thing or something you think is good to do. Religion is not inherited, so it doesn't matter what your ancestors may have been. What is important is what is -- (inaudible) -- has given to you. So Islam is in the heart. And it is absent of a person's skin color or their gender.

Again, African Americans do represent at this time in the United States of America the largest ethnic group embracing Islam. But I studied in the Midwest, in Chicago, Illinois, and I can tell you that coming from that region and beyond, principally in Nebraska, that the largest body of people embracing Islam happen to be white females. And I am also very happy to report that these females are not simply embracing the religion on the sense of someone they've met and think that it is a fascinating or romantic religion. These women are scholars in Islam. They have gone to some of the best schools in this country to study Islamic thought, Islamic studies, and they are very articulate in their applications and presentations of Islam, many of whom were my instructors and mentors while I was in school. So again African Americans are dominant, but the white community, the Hispanic community and the Asia community are also very active and converting in great numbers at the time in the United States of America.

MS. RASSAN: We go back. We resume our "Global Exchange," and we are talking about the spread of Islam in the United States, and specifically in the U.S. military. We go back now to our colleagues at ANN London.

QUESTION: To Admiral Holderby (sp), there are those who think that revealing one's religion could be cause for persecution. To what extent is this really true and relevant in the United States?

ADM. HOLDERBY: I would say I don't think that would be true in the United States military. I have not heard of any widespread persecution within the civilian community as well, although I am not an expert to speak to that. But within the United States military I have not seen or read or been informed of any such problems arising.

Now, one of the things that the United States military is certainly known for is its uniformity. We're all the same in the military. We all wear the same uniform, we all make the same amount of money at the various pay grades. We all live in the same housing areas. So there's a great deal of uniformity in the military, and a great deal of acceptance of each other as military men and women. There's a bond there. And I just don't think I see the kind of thing that you mention.

MS. RASSAN: Go ahead with more questions please.

QUESTION: My question also is to Admiral Holderby (sp). It has to do with the status of Muslims in the United States. Do laws that affect personal status in the United States -- do they recognize important aspects of the Islamic faith as they affect personal matters such as polygamy for example, the right to have more than one wife, and inheritance laws?

ADM. HOLDERBY: Well, I'm not an expert on the legal matter, but I don't believe that polygamy is lawful in the United States, so they would not respect that part of it. A person in the United States would live under the same laws regardless of what religious expression that they have.

QUESTION: Forgive me. Perhaps Imam Malik may have a comment on that, and maybe we could hear from him what his comment is.

IMAM NOEL: Thank you so much. Sharia is not something that is being observed in the United States. This is a secular country with religious values. And so to attempt to impose the sharia and the tenets of that here is not something that is happening. However, it is an issue I think with the overall Muslim community. But again, as Admiral Holderby (sp) has said, the Muslims that are here are citizens of the United States, and as Muslims know we must respect the leadership and still attempt to practice our religion as we are obligated to under God.

MS. RASSAN: We would like to thank our colleagues at ANN London, and we wish them good fast and we wish them the very best for the rest of the month of Ramadan and the break of the fast.

When we were talking earlier about building a mosque at the naval base in Norfolk, and Imam Malik mentioned that, we know from the news that the U.S. military has designated places for prayer, and for Islamic prayer. Is there an intention to build or designate additional areas for Muslim prayer in the various U.S. bases around the country?

ADM. HOLDERBY: Well, there certainly will be, as that requirement is there, as the population is there, and someone there to lead them. And that's pretty much the way religious facilities are built throughout the military. Oftentimes if we move into a small base that's growing we -- faith groups will maybe meet in a particular room designated for that, with the hope and the intent that in time as the base grows and so forth that then formal religious facilities will be set up. Part of it is financial and part is what is the requirement -- how many people are there.

MS. RASSAN: Imam Malik bin Noel, as we know Islam calls upon Muslims to perform the duties of a Muslim actively and enthusiastically. Do you believe that a Muslim soldier in the U.S. military can manage to perform his military service and also perform his religious duties?

IMAM NOEL: Yes. Without question. I have again been in the military for now 18 years. During my time as a Muslim I have not ever not been able to meet those obligations and requirements while associated with the United States Navy. Again, I have had support in those things -- it was just a matter of being willing to speak up and say what I needed and be able to show why I needed it, and to be honest and truthful in it, and then do it. So I have been able to fast, I have been able to move forward in a very positive way. So the answer to your question: Yes.

MS. RASSAN: I would like to thank our two guests, Admiral Holderby (sp) here in Washington and Imam Malik bin Noel in Norfolk, Virginia. Many happy returns for the month of Ramadan and for the Id al-Fitr, the break of the fast. And we also wish the same -- many happy returns to Admiral Holderby (sp). I would also like to thank all those who participated with us with their questions. This is Shameem Rassan signing off.