Transcript: Powell Calls for All-Inclusive Afghan Government

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell called upon the Afghan representatives meeting in Germany on November 27 to agree to a broad-based interim government that would include all groups of Afghan society, including women.

"In order for a government to be representative and to get the blessings, frankly, of the international community, it really should represent all the people. There are many talented, educated Afghan women, professional women and others who can contribute to the rebuilding of Afghan society," he said November 21 in an interview on National Public Radio.

Participation is in the interests of everyone, including warlords who might prefer an independent power base, he stated, since the government will have international support and will control all humanitarian and reconstruction aid coming into the country.

"That's a powerful incentive, to be able to link in to the rebuilding of your country, rather than sitting out in some far province trying to cling to the remnants of Taliban authority," he said.

Powell said the question of whether to deploy an international peacekeeping force in Afghanistan is under active consideration, and a decision to do so would depend on the security situation. He said some 40 countries have offered military assistance in one form or another.

The secretary said the security situation has improved considerably, allowing greater quantities of humanitarian aid to flow into the country. He said French and Jordanian troops are going to northern Afghanistan, the hardest hit area, to facilitate the delivery of supplies from Uzbekistan.

With regards to his November 19 speech in which he strongly criticized Israeli settlements and declared the West Bank and Gaza to be occupied territories, Powell said he spelled out long held U.S. positions for the first time in a comprehensive way.

"There is nothing new with respect to the United States identifying the West Bank and Gaza as occupied territories. They are occupied territories under UN resolutions. So there is nothing -- absolutely nothing new in that language," he said.

He said the first thing that is needed is a cease-fire, and he believes the two sides may have come to the realization that they need to take a new path to deal with their conflict.

"It is not Secretary of State Powell or President Bush or General Zinni who will bring the cease-fire about. It's if the two sides finally come to the realization that the only thing we see day after day are dead Israelis and dead Palestinians, and this is taking us nowhere, and we have got to break this track we are on. We have got to get off this path we are on and move onto a new path," he said.

Following is a transcript of Powell's interview:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman

November 21, 2001

INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN L. POWELL BY NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO ON "ALL THINGS CONSIDERED"
November 21, 2001
Washington, D.C.

2:00 P.M. EST

Question: (In progress) who are not now in Afghanistan, will attempt to reach an interim agreement on how to run the country. What is your view of the best possible outcome of that meeting?

Secretary Powell: Well, I think the best possible outcome would be for all of the groups in Afghanistan to be represented. It won't be a very large meeting. I doubt if more than, say, 20 to 30 people would be there. But it would be helpful if every one of the major groups are represented, and if they came into agreement that they should form a provisional or interim government that would last for some relatively short period of time -- a matter of months, not longer than that -- and that that interim government would immediately move to Kabul, with the United Nations working with them, Mr. Brahimi, and set itself up in Kabul. Then once in Kabul, we can start bringing in humanitarian supplies, and they can then begin the work of putting in place a more complete government, a government that reflects every single element of Afghan society, especially women.

Question: You want -- you think women should be a part of the government? But women are not to be a part of the meeting in Berlin, as I understand it.

Secretary Powell: I don't know who will be in the meeting in Germany, and I'm not sure yet whether it will be in Berlin or Bonn. But it's certainly going to be in Germany. I don't know who all the attendees are. But even if there are no women attendees at that meeting in Germany, I think we have made the point that in order for a government to be representative and to get the blessings, frankly, of the international community, it really should represent all the people. There are many talented, educated Afghan women, professional women and others who can contribute to the rebuilding of Afghan society.

I was pleased to see, when the television station opened again the other day, that there were two women commentators talking to the people of Afghanistan. I think that's the kind of society we would like to see reflected in the government of Afghanistan.

Now, what positions they might hold, or whether they have to be governmental positions or other positions of influence in the society remains to be seen. But it certainly is going to be a far, far different kind of representation than we saw under the Taliban regime.

Question: Mr. Secretary, isn't the opportunity to create something broad-based, even if it's not as broad-based as you want, isn't that opportunity a very brief one, a kind of a moment in which to head off the war lords and prevent them from returning to their former fiefdoms and falling to fighting among themselves, as they have for so many years?

Secretary Powell: Well, I think it is important to get this meeting under way as quickly as possible. We had hoped it would happen earlier, but the fact that it is happening at all is a significant achievement. I would expect that it will only last a brief period of time, a few days in Germany, and try to form this provisional arrangement, and then get it back into the country. I think if you do that and if it shows up back in Kabul, ready to go to work, and it reflects the major parties in the country, then we have finessed the war lords. They will have to deal with this government, because it is this government that will be supported by the international community, that will be the means by which humanitarian aid comes in, and the means by which reconstruction aid comes in. That's a powerful incentive, to be able to link in to the rebuilding of your country, rather than sitting out in some far province trying to cling to the remnants of Taliban authority.

Question: Sir, would such a transitional government have to be accompanied by some kind of peacekeeping force, say from the United Nations or from some place? The Northern Alliance does not appear to want that.

Secretary Powell: That is a question that is under consideration. At the moment, some of the concerns we had a week or 10 days ago about there being disorder in Kabul, where there might be atrocities and other terrible things happening, that has turned out not to be the case. The city seems to be functioning as it was before the Taliban departed; and the Northern Alliance, while it has security forces in the city, most of their forces are outside the city. Mr. Rabbani, the head of the Northern Alliance and the president of the last functioning government that was there, has indicated that he has no intention of taking power in Kabul but wants to be part of this broad-based alliance, coalition, governmental organization that we're trying to create over the next week or so.

Question: NGOs --

Secretary Powell: So we'll -- if I may just continue -- so it remains to be seen whether or not you have to bring in additional forces, non-Afghan forces beyond those that are already there now, the few Americans who are there. But it's a question we have under active consideration, to see whether or not there is a need for such a force. We are in constant discussions with the United Nations and with our coalition partners, and with our commander on the scene, General Tommy Franks, who by the way has done a great job.

Question: How would you make that decision? I mean, what would signal the need for a force to be there?

Secretary Powell: I think we first and foremost listen to our commander on the ground and get his assessment as to whether there is a need for a force to be in the country as, say, an insurance policy against something going wrong or to help people in need. I'd wait for his judgment first. If we had a judgment from him that said, yes, this looks like a prudent thing to do, then we would take it up with our coalition partners, nations that are willing to provide such troops, and also take it up with the UN.

The Turks have indicated an interest, the Brits; the French and Jordanians are going into Mazar-e Sharif. The Canadians have expressed an interest. There have been some 40 countries that have offered up military forces in one form or another. Not all of them are willing to send, say, infantry troops into Afghanistan. But they have been interested in sending transport aircraft or humanitarian units or hospital units. So there has been quite an outpouring from the international community of military offers.

Question: Mr. Secretary, I understand that nongovernmental organizations like Feed the Children and others who are anxious to get into Afghanistan with aid do want some kind of force there to make it safe for them to take the kind of staff and aid that they need to take.

Secretary Powell: We haven't had -- I'm not aware of specific requests for the international coalition to put in an entirely new force to take over the whole country. We are as anxious as these aid organizations to establish security in the area and get food and medicines and other humanitarian supplies in.

The situation has improved considerably. The food necessary to feed the people is in the region and is now coming into the country in bulk. The difficulty, which I think is what you were alluding to, is clearing the roads, making sure the mines are out of the way, and making sure that the food can be distributed on a retail basis down to the individual villages where they are needed, where the food is needed. This is principally up in the northern part of the country, south of Uzbekistan and south of Mazar-e Sharif. That is the hardest-hit area, and we do have some French and Jordanian troops going into that part to secure Mazar-e Sharif, start to provide some aid and facilitate the delivery of supplies coming down from Uzbekistan.

Question: Mr. Secretary, on the Middle East. Your speech in Louisville has been welcomed by Arab leaders who are very sensitive to the language that you used. You talked about Palestine. You referred to Israeli settlement of the West Bank as occupation. Are they right to notice a deliberate change of tone here?

Secretary Powell: I think they, both sides, Israelis and Arabs and Palestinians, have responded favorably to the speech, I'm pleased to say. What we tried to do in that speech is to lay down US positions that have existed over time, and lay them down in one comprehensive way and say to both parties, this is what you have to do to move this process along, and these are the realities.

There is nothing new with respect to the United States identifying the West Bank and Gaza as occupied territories. They are occupied territories under UN resolutions. So there is nothing -- absolutely nothing new in that language, although people might not like to hear it come out of the mouth of the Secretary of State.

And with respect to settlement activity, that also has been a US position, and it is also a major feature of the Mitchell Plan, to go forward. Both the Palestinians and the Israelis have accepted a cessation of settlement activity as part of the Mitchell Plan.

Now, getting to that cessation of settlement activity will take a great deal of tough negotiating. That's what we're trying to get to, but the first thing we have to get to is a cease-fire.

So the purpose of my speech was to lay down what we believe, lay down the reality of the situation, lay down American positions that have been held for many, many years and put it down for the first time in a comprehensive way as reflecting the views of the Bush Administration. And now we are trying to energize that process by sending Assistant Secretary Burns and General Zinni over to begin discussions with the two committees that are now being formed. The Israelis had previously decided to create a high-level security committee, and the Palestinians are going to match it, and General Zinni is going to go work with them to get a cease-fire.

The most important thing right now, and the only thing that will get us moving, is a cease-fire. It's easy to say; it's very hard to bring into being. That's the mission we're giving General Zinni, to go help them bring a cease-fire into being so that we can start confidence-building measures, we can restore trust and confidence, and then quickly get to negotiations on all of these issues -- settlements, Jerusalem, return of refugees -- which are very, very difficult issues to deal with. But they will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

Question: Mr. Secretary, the United States has been at this point a number of times before. I wonder what is different, either for the Bush Administration or for the United States, that will make a difference.

Secretary Powell: Well, several things. One, I think the two parties have been slugging it out now for the last year in the course of the intifada. Mr. Sharon came in on a platform of security and quiet, and after nine months we have not achieved security or quiet. The Palestinians must be realizing by now that they are not going to achieve their objectives by continued violence.

So I think both parties recognize that they need to stop and take a look at where they are and see how to go forward. Mr. Sharon came up with the idea of a senior-level committee led by him and Foreign Minister Peres. Chairman Arafat said he will respond in kind. And that gave us a basis for now engaging with a senior person representing the President and representing me, General Zinni, who will stay in the region with them and try to get this cease-fire moving.

But at the end of the day, it is not Secretary of State Powell or President Bush or General Zinni who will bring the cease-fire about. It's if the two sides finally come to the realization that the only thing we see day after day are dead Israelis and dead Palestinians, and this is taking us nowhere, and we have got to break this track we are on. We have got to get off this path we are on and move onto a new path.

We took a look at it and thought this was time for us to lay down our position and then to put General Zinni in there to help them come to the right answers with respect to a cease-fire, and help them decide what compromises both sides have to make to get into the cease-fire. And a cease-fire is solely for the purpose of getting into the Mitchell Plan and moving quickly to negotiations.

Question: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much for spending the time with us.

Secretary Powell: Thank you, Linda. Bye-bye. Happy Thanksgiving.

Question: Thank you, sir.

2:15 P.M. EST

(end transcript)

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