Washington -- The U.S. Special Representative for Global Humanitarian Demining, Donald Steinberg, says U.S. government spending on demining programs worldwide is likely to reach $110 million in 1999.

Speaking during a March 11 USIA WorldNet program, Steinberg outlined a wide range of programs and initiatives the United States is involved in. These include raising people's awareness about the danger landmines pose; supporting surveys to identify and locate where mines have been planted; actual demining; and training others how to remove mines.

In addition, Steinberg said the United States, in conjunction with the United Nations and NGOs, also supports programs that help victims of landmine accidents, not only with medical and psychological recovery, but also with acquiring skills that can help them lead more productive lives.

Joining Steinberg on the program, which linked audiences in Amman, Cairo and Peshawar, was Robert Beecroft, deputy assistant secretary for political-military affairs at the State Department.

Beecroft said the United States is working diligently towards eliminating anti-personnel landmines, even though it is not a signatory to the 1997 Ottawa Convention, which banned international use, production, and sale of landmines.

A number of other key countries, including China, also have not signed the Ottawa Convention.

Among the steps the U.S. has taken, Beecroft said, are a ban on the export and transfer of anti-personnel landmines, and seeking U.S. Senate ratification of an amended 72-nation agreement on the Convention on Conventional Weapons (the CCW) that significantly restricts use of landmines.

In addition, the U.S. destroyed 3.3 million anti-personnel landmines between 1996 and 1998, Beecroft said. The only landmines the U.S. still has are those needed for defense in South Korea and for training purposes.

Beecroft said the United States is prepared to sign the Ottawa Convention by 2006 if it succeeds in "identifying and deploying suitable alternatives" to landmines and its mixed anti-tank systems by that date.

Following is a transcript of the WorldNet broadcast:

(Begin transcript)

MR. FOUCHEUX: Hello, and welcome to Worldnet's "Dialogue," Rick Foucheux. Today on "Dialogue," our continuing look at one of the world's pressing and horrific problems. Everyday thousands of people, mostly in developing countries face the danger of landmine, buried weapons often placed during wartimes and left behind to claim innocent victims.

Around the world these hidden killers are responsible for more than 25,000 casualties annually -- civilians, many children, whose only crime was walking into the path of an undetected mine, who then pay with their bodies or their lives.

Because most landmines are long-lived and very difficult to detect, they continue to be a threat. So the United States and the European Commission have joined forces to work together on a wide range of technological initiatives to help remove that threat completely by the year 2010.

Joining us to today in a discussion of this effort and the current status is the special representative of the president, Ambassador Donald Steinberg. Ambassador Steinberg, welcome to our program today. It's a pleasure to have you with us.

AMB. STEINBERG: Thank you, Rick.

MR. FOUCHEUX: We are also expecting to be joined in a moment by U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Robert Beecroft.

Before we begin with our questioners overseas, I think you might have a word or two to begin the program. Is that right, ambassador?

AMB. STEINBERG: Thank you, Rick. I'd like to say just a few words about what we are doing in the U.S. government under the president's demining 2010 initiative, as well as a brief explanation for how I came to this position.

Landmines have been a part of my life for the better part of a decade. When I was serving as President Clinton's adviser for Africa, I took a trip to the continent, and traveled to Mozambique, Rwanda, Burundi, Ethiopia, and Angola -- five of the world's most heavily mined countries. During that visit we went to the small town of Kweto (ph) in eastern Angola. And that is a town that has been surrounded by landmines. It is an embattled city.

We walked into a small clinic, and in that clinic we saw a woman on a table who was giving birth, and having part of her leg amputated at the same time. The story that the doctor later told us what that this woman had been seven months pregnant, had been starving to death, and she knew that that mango grove had been mined by dissident who were trying to sow disorder in Angola. But she had to go in anyway. She stepped on a landmine, and the doctor told us later that it was very unlikely that either the woman or her child would survive.

You can't see that kind of thing and not be moved and impressed at the horror of these weapons.

And soon thereafter, in the summer of 1995, I became the American ambassador to Angola, and over the next three years I watched as 80,000 amputees from landmine accidents were spread throughout the country -- literally hundreds of thousands of people driven from their homes by these weapons, and indeed millions of people affected by the economic, environmental and psychological degradation caused by these weapons.

It was for that reason that I was so pleased to be asked by the president to serve as the special representative for global humanitarian demining. In that capacity, my principal responsibility relates to the demining 2010 initiative, the goal of which is to generate enough resources, both in the United States and abroad, and to work closely with our United Nations colleagues, the European Union and, most importantly, the individuals who lead governments and NGOs around the world in mine-affected countries, in order to by the year 2010 eliminate the threat of landmines to civilians around the world.

We are involved in a number of initiatives. The total expenditures of our program will probably reach about $110 million this year. Those programs are involved in mine awareness, to train children and their parents around the world how to identify and avoid these weapons; we are supporting survey programs to go into the worst affected countries and to give us a better idea of what it is that we are actually facing on the ground. We are working in the area of actual demining, in order to train deminers. And indeed about a quarter of the world's deminers today have been trained by the United States. We are actually supporting NGOs and governments and United Nations activities that are demining around the world. And, equally important, there are today about 300,000 victims of landmine accidents around the world, and we are supporting programs that are assisting not only their medical and psychological recovery, but their social reintegration, giving them the skills that they need to reintegrate into society to become productive members of society.

All of these efforts work very closely with the private sector as well, and we have a number of very exciting initiatives. On Tuesday this week I addressed about a thousand Americans working with the United Nations Association of the U.S.A., and they have put together a remarkable program called Adopt a Mine Field. Under that program there are groups all around the United States that are raising money to sponsor the demining of fields in Afghanistan, Croatia, Cambodia, Mozambique and Bosnia. And for $25,000, church groups, civic organizations, schools and U.S. companies are sponsoring the demining of fields around the world. We are involved with groups like D.C. Comics, who is the group that sponsors Superman and Wonder Woman, in producing comic books. And these comic books are designed to teach children how to identify and avoid these weapons. And indeed Superman -- and fortunately we are now gender-sensitive, so we have Wonder Woman as well -- who are working with the children of Bosnia, working with the children of Central America, and soon working with the children of Portuguese-speaking Africa to identify and avoid the weapons.

Again, there are any number of other initiatives, and we are delighted to be working with our private sector, as well as NGOs and U.S. companies, and the European Union, the United Nations, and as I have said, most importantly, the mine action centers of the countries affected by these weapons as well.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Splendid, ambassador. Thank you very much.

Ambassador Steinberg and I have now been joined by Deputy Assistant Secretary of State in the Bureau of Political and Military Affairs, Mr. Robert Beecroft.

MR. BEECROFT: Good morning.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Deputy assistant secretary, thank you for joining us.

MR. BEECROFT: I'm sorry to be late, but I am very happy to be here and to join my friend Ambassador Steinberg.

As I think you know, we represent the two sides of the coin in terms of the United States' engagement in demining. And the role of the Bureau of Political and Military Affairs is in effect to work with the ambassador to not only publicize worldwide the United States' engagement in demining, but actually physically to help countries who have a demining problem to take mines out of the ground. So it's a symbiotic relationship, and one that we all benefit from.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Wonderful. We are glad you are both here.

Our guests overseas today are many and varied. They're standing by in Amman, Cairo and Peshawar. So let's get right to the discussion. We begin in Amman, Jordan. Amman, welcome to the program, and please go ahead.

Q: Hello, my name is -- (inaudible) -- I am a journalist for the Jordan Times Daily newspaper, and from Radio Jordan's English Service. My first question pertains to the U.S. position regarding the Mine Ban Treaty. Now, five years ago President Bill Clinton pledged to lead a global movement to eliminate these weapons. However, as of yet the United States has not signed or ratified the Mine Ban Treaty, which has become part of international law as of the 1st of March. Could you please explain?

MR. BEECROFT: Thank you very much, Amman. And let me say as someone who served as deputy chief of mission in Amman until 1996, it's a pleasure to be back in touch with you. I would also add that I plan to visit Jordan in May, and look forward to discussing these questions directly.

You are right that the United States has not yet signed the Ottawa treaty, and for very good reasons that have to do with our role as a power that has special responsibilities in the world, most specifically in Korea.

We have, in 1997, President Clinton permanently banned the exports and transfers of anti-personnel landmines. We are working toward eliminating anti-personnel landmines, and we also believe it's important to strengthen international restrictions on their use. We are seeking prompt U.S. Senate ratification of the amended mines protocol to the 72-nation Convention on Conventional Weapons, or CCW, which contains significant restrictions on the use of landmines.

A number of key countries that for one reason or another are not Ottawa signatories have agreed to the Protocol, and we would expect many of those who have not yet ratified it to do so soon.

Between 1996 and 1998 the United States destroyed 3.3 million non-self-destructing anti-personnel landmines. The only landmines that we still have of that type are needed for defense in Korea and for training. We have made it clear that we will end all use of anti-personnel landmines outside of Korea by the year 2003, and seek to have alternatives ready for Korea by 2006. And I can assure you that the research and development is now going forward on alternatives.

We have not signed the Ottawa convention -- that is true -- because of our concern of the safety and security of our men and women in uniform, and the unique responsibilities that the United States has for the security of our friends and allies. However, we will sign Ottawa by 2006, if we succeed in identifying and deploying suitable alternatives to our anti-personnel landmines and our mixed anti-tank systems by then. And, as I said, we are working energetically to identify adequate alternatives. But the fact that the United States is a world power with world responsibilities makes it impossible for us to do so until we are satisfied that we can continue to meet those responsibilities without the use of the landmines that are now deployed.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you, Amman. And now we turn to Peshawar for questions. Please go ahead in Peshawar.

Q: This is -- (inaudible) -- good morning, gentlemen. My name is -- (inaudible) -- I am the director of Omar (ph), and the founding member of the Afghan Campaign to Ban Land Mines.

My question is the U.N. is working with some of the international organizations in Afghanistan providing funds to coordinate the activities. In support of initiative 2010, what will be the U.S. strategy in this regard, whether by sitting up a new system or coordinating with the U.N., or help the international organizations? Thank you.

MR. BEECROFT: Well, as you know, the United States is already deeply engaged in Afghanistan, where there are an estimated five to seven landmines deployed. The United States works with indigenous non-governmental organizations as well as UNOCHA (ph), which has the lead in demining in Afghanistan. We work very closely with UNOCHA (ph). UNOCHA (ph) has a declared rate of one dollar per square meter cleared, which makes it one of the most cost-effective programs in existence today.

We are also prepared to provide a grant of $1.3 million to the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation to enable them to conduct what we call level one surveys in Afghanistan on behalf of the United Nations.

I must add, though, that because the United States does not recognize the Taliban government, a bilateral U.S. humanitarian demining program for Afghanistan is not possible. That is why we work closely with UNOCHA (ph), and have done so since 1993.

With U.S. assistance and that of other donors, the Afghan mine program has cleared over 150 square kilometers of the some 700 square kilometers that are known in Afghanistan to contain mines. We are also working on the mine-sniffing dog program in Afghanistan, which has been so successful it now serves as a model for other mine-affected countries.

And, most importantly, our cooperation with UNOCHA (ph) has contributed to a significant reduction in the rate of casualties inside Afghanistan. In this fiscal year the United States is providing $2 million in demining assistance to Afghanistan, and that brings our total assistance to over $21 million since 1993.

AMB. STEINBERG: In addition to the direct U.S. government assistance, we are also, as I mentioned before, working closely with the United Nations Association of the U.S.A., as well as other agencies, including the Humpty-Dumpty Institute on the Adopt a Mine Field project. This is the brochure that is now being shared throughout the United States to encourage communities around the country to contribute to that effort. And one of the principal goals is to encourage contributions for Afghanistan. And this is a description for the average American citizen of the problem of landmines in Afghanistan, and it even includes very specific landmine field, including ones in Surposa (ph) and in Qat e Joabar (ph), where Americans can contribute anywhere from $27,000 to $78,000, and those fields will be demined by the United Nations operation in the name of the American citizen who has contributed.

And, as I said, I had the opportunity to address about a thousand activists throughout the United States who are going to be going back to their communities and trying to raise money for those efforts. The situation in Afghanistan has touched the hearts of Americans throughout our country, and I am absolutely certain that we will be able to generate substantial resources for this effort, in addition to what the U.S. government has been able to provide directly.

MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, thank you in Peshawar for that question. Let's move along now to Cairo, Egypt. Please go ahead with your question or comment.

Q: I am -- (inaudible) -- Egyptian Campaign to Ban Land Mines. As you may know, we have one landmine for every three citizens in our country. And as I know there are a lot of programs for demining through the United States. What is -- why is Egypt out of these programs? This is my question.

MR. BEECROFT: Well, let me challenge the assumption that Egypt is out of the programs. I also plan to come to Cairo in May and discuss this directly with your government. But while the United States has not been assisting Egypt to clear landmines, the United States does hope to provide $1.5 million in this fiscal year to be used in Egypt for the so-called train the trainer program.

Let me stress that United States activities in demining overseas do not involve actual removal of mines, but in training experts in the various countries where we work to take on that responsibility. This will be, as I must say, a one-time only contribution to Egypt, but we will be doing it this year, and $1.5 million will be provided from our so-called Overseas Humanitarian Aid and Civic Assistance Program, or ODUCA (ph), which is a Defense Department program.

I would also note that Egypt could extend the value of this assistance by using a portion of this $1.3 million for the purpose of purchasing humanitarian demining equipment, while using ODUCA (ph) funds for training. I should add too that Egypt has been extremely adept -- extremely effective in tackling the problem itself. The government of Egypt states that it has removed 11 million mines from its soil. And I am aware of the gravity of the problem in both east and west Egypt. The challenge remains significant, however, and we look forward to working with Egypt using the $1.5 million which will be available this year to advance the cause of the total demining of Egypt.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Okay, thank you in Cairo for that question, and thanks to all of our posts for that first round of questions. We now return to Amman for another round. Please go ahead once again in Amman, Jordan.

Q: Good morning. I am Brigadier General -- (inaudible) -- the Royal Engineer Corps commander. First, we thank the United States for its assistance to our demining program.

As you know, in Jordan our demining program is run by (Army Engineers ?). From 1975 till now we have cleared more than 100,000 mines; 65,000 of them between the year 1993 and 1999, when we started our real demining program.

Our demining program is designed to achieve the following targets: to return lands for cultivation, to enable construction and new projects, to enhance confidence after the peace treaty was signed, and also to support the international accords to prohibit using this evil weapon, and also to protect civilians of the dangerous mines.

My question is you know now in the world there are more than 150 million mines. And most assistance given now is given to NGOs -- are not for regular armies. From my point of view -- (inaudible) -- involved regular army in the demining problem and let rehabilitation and mine awareness for NGOs -- it will be more beneficial and effective.

To close, NGOs size is limited, and their capabilities also are limited and -- (inaudible) -- at the same time if we keep on the same level of clearing mines in the world, I think we will achieve nothing, because what is laid now is more to clearing now. So we have to enhance mine cleaning all over the world by using, in my point of view, regular armies, which is not involved in mines in their countries -- not just NGOs. Thank you.

AMB. STEINBERG: If I could respond to that question. First of all, I very much appreciate the description of the motivation for the Jordanian program, which mirrors the desire of the countries to address not just the question of mines in the ground, but the question of demining as a confidence-building measure for societies that are moving beyond periods of conflict. For example, in Central America, in Peru, Ecuador and in other areas around the world, the principal reason for demining is to draw the parties together, to work on a common confidence-building measure, to symbolize the end of conflict.

In addition, you referred to the humanitarian problems caused and the socio-economic problems. Landmines pose a real and present danger to societies as they try to have displaced people return to their homes, as they try to have new economic areas brought under cultivation, and indeed as they try to address the problem of 300,000 landmine victims around the world.

With respect to the second aspect of your question, first of all the figure of 130 to 150 million landmines, thank goodness, I think is a bit inflated. We have researched, working with the United Nations and host countries. I think the figure probably is more like 60 to 70 million, still a very serious problem. But thank goodness a little less than what you have indicated.

Additionally, as you referred to the question of military engagement in de-mining, indeed in most countries is it the indigenous military that is involved in the demining process. And in the ODACA (ph) funds that Deputy Assistant Secretary Beecroft mentioned, that go through our military, we have trained indeed about a quarter of the world's deminers, and almost all of those individuals are in their local militaries.

What this raises for me is the need for a menu of capacities to be applied to any particular country. We need of course to involve NGOs, UNICEF and other organizations in mine awareness programs. These are essential. We also need, as Mr. Beecroft mentioned, to be doing surveys, and I am pleased the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, along with a whole variety of NGOs coming from Norway, Germany, France and in Britain, are working on this level one survey project in conjunction with the United Nations, so that we can identify where the landmines are and proceed to develop plans to remove them.

We are indeed supporting a variety of militaries around the world on their de-mining capabilities, as well as NGOs. They have complementary skills to offer; and, as I said, the essential role of the international community working with indigenous parties to assist the victims of landmine accidents. So indeed you need a menu of capacities to address the problem in any particular country. And we are trying to promote all of those under our programs.

MR. BEECROFT: I'd like to first greet Major Almaljali (ph) and to say that I am fully aware of the contributions and capacities of the Royal Jordanian Armed Forces Corps of Engineers. It is a dedicated and professional force. We know that the Royal Corps of Engineers has completed most of the initial demining work in the Jordan Valley, and we are able to say now that some of Jordan's mine fields will soon serve as a test bed for a new type of heavy demining machinery under contract by the U.S. Army, called the Rhino. The Rhino is an earth-tilling machine which detonates landmines as it rolls over them.

And we will also be working with the Royal Jordanian government in an on-site demonstration of the capabilities of mine-sniffing dogs, which are an important option for detecting mine fields, and would provide Jordanian deminers with another tool in the arsenal of demining.

I would like to point out also that since 1996 the United States government has provided almost $4 million to Jordan for demining. And in 1999, fiscal year 1999, we are providing almost $2 million in funds for demining operations. So we are working closely with Jordan. We understand the importance of the Jordanian military, and I look forward to discussing these matters further when I visit Amman.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you, Amman. Let's return now to Cairo for another question. Please go ahead once again in Cairo.

Q: Yes, sir, my name is Mohammed Bashuna (ph). I am general managers for landmines -- (inaudible) -- center in Egypt. We believe, sir, that the international law is the first law which we can depend on to solve this problem. And not only sign Ottawa, or waiting for signing from people, but we think that the world now, working together for peace. And we have here around 33 victims during the last year -- people killed and losing arms, legs. And nobody cares. We are asking for help from everybody. And we know that the international NGOs now can offer a lot of funding to solve this problem. What do you think sir?

AMB. STEINBERG: I am well aware of the problems of individuals who step on landmines, as I said from 1995 to 1998 I was in a country where 80,000 individuals had stepped on landmines and are now amputees because of that.

We are very pleased that Congress has allocated to our government for substantial funds for what is called the Patrick J. Leahy War Victims Fund. In 1999 alone we will have more than $10 million to support projects around the world to assist landmine victims in their social and psychological reintegration.

In many cases this is not just the humanitarian crisis; it's an economic crisis for the families that are affected. The rule of thumb that is applied around the world is that if a member of your family steps on a landmine and is injured in that way, it will cost your family your entire annual income, plus 50 percent of that income from then. So this represents not just a crisis for a country, but a crisis for a family as well.

In addition, we are working very closely with a group in the United States called the Land Mine Survivors Network, and this is a group of Americans who have been affected by landmine, led by two remarkable individuals, Jerry White and Ken Rutherford. And they are establishing linkages with landmine survivors around the world -- not only to provide the moral and psychological support that these individuals need, but actual programs on the ground to assist the reintegration of these individuals.

Further, our Department of Education is funding a project in the United States which is soon to be applied worldwide by the Physicians Against Land Mines, a group headed by some remarkable individuals, including Will Kennedy Smith. And that project is designed to identify low-cost prosthetic devices that can be applied around the world using indigenous capability. In addition, there is a project that is about to get off the ground which will link through the marvels of the Internet doctors around the world who are doing ground-breaking research in prosthetics and orthotics, allowing individuals on the front grounds of the fight against landmines to have the medical training that they need.

One of the last things I did in Angola before returning to my current job was to visit a center out in Moshiko (ph) Province, which is in the far, far east of Angola, where our Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, working in conjunction with the French NGO, Handicapped International, and the German NGO, Medikosch (ph), we are providing 1,000 landmine victims with new lives through these types of programs, and we are prepared to consider similar approaches all around the world.

MR. BEECROFT: I would just like to add, if I could, to respond to Mr. Bashuni (ph). We are aware of the fact that Egypt has a major landmine problem which exists in the Sinai, on the Red Sea coast and in the western desert. We are working here in Washington on options that would continue to assist Egypt in overcoming its landmine problem. As I mentioned, we will be providing $1.5 million this year for a train-the-trainer program to support Egypt's own very impressive activities. And our embassy in Cairo, through the UNDP and the donor assistance has organized a donor assistance advisory group, a subcommittee of countries interested in working with Egypt to solve the landmine problem. I assume that Mr. Bashuni (ph) is in touch with our embassy on this, and I look forward to discussing it with him personally in May.

MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, we return to Amman once again for more questions. Please go ahead once again in Amman.

Q: This is -- (inaudible). It has been mentioned just now that the U.S. recently approved around $2 million for Jordan's demining efforts. How much is Jordan getting out of the total budget of $50 million as part of the NADR (ph) funding compared to other countries in the Middle East?

And the second part of the question is: Is the country restricted as to how much it can spend on demining efforts and how much it can use in support of landmine victims, et cetera? Thank you.

MR. BEECROFT: As for the second question, NADR (ph) funds are restricted to specific use for demining purposes. The U.S. Congress was quite specific in prescribing the ways in which NADR (ph) funding could be used. So the $1.9 million that we are providing to Jordan in this fiscal year will go for demining operations per se.

I frankly am not able to tell you what the relative proportion of the $1.9 million is compared to other countries in the Middle East. But I can tell you that the United States, as you know, is currently looking very seriously at supporting Jordan in many areas, both landmine and other areas, because of Jordan's obvious importance in the region. And my guess would be that Jordan would be very much at the top of the heap in terms of the amount that is provided for demining. I can supply that answer to the Embassy later, and will do so.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you again, Amman. Let's go back to Peshawar now for more questions. Please go ahead once again in Peshawar.

Q: Good morning, gentlemen. This is -- (inaudible) -- coordinator of Pakistan's Campaign to Ban Land Mines. My question is I would like to quote Mr. Eric Newsome, assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs. He stated in the United States Information Services news release it is important not only to mobilize the international community to eliminate embedded landmines, but to force the cooperation to -- (inaudible) -- the laying of any new mines. I would like to know what is your strategy for controlling the widespread and continued use of landmines. Would it not be a better solution to sign and ratify the Ottawa landmine ban treaty as soon as possible by the maximum states, including the United States, to come with the problem? Thank you so much.

MR. BEECROFT: Well, I can start out by recalling the comments I made earlier, that it is the United States' goal to sign Ottawa as soon as our worldwide responsibilities put us in a position to do so. That involves researching alternative technologies on the ground that can be used primarily in Korea to counter-balance the possibility of a massive attack from North Korea, which none of us want, but which we can't rule out.

Our goal is to identify and deploy alternative technologies by 2006 that will allow us to sign Ottawa. Of course it would be fine if we were able to do it today, but our worldwide responsibilities simply do not allow for that.

AMB. STEINBERG: To follow up on the broader questions, clearly landmines are in part a symptom as well as the problem itself in areas of conflict around the world. Regrettably governments, but more important insurgency groups, tend to use landmines as a military objective. And so we are facing a moving target. Even as we work in a single country or a single region to make that area mine-safe, there are new landmines being planted in other areas. This brings in the larger question of stockpile destruction. There are perhaps as many as three to four times the number of landmines that have been planted that are actually in stockpiles around the world. And the United States has a goal of eliminating the threat of landmines before they ever enter into the ground. As Assistant Secretary Beecroft had mentioned, we have destroyed 3.3 millon of our own landmines, and we are looking at possible assistance to other countries in the destruction of their landmines as well.

But then there is the larger question, and that is how do we address conflict around the world, and especially in countries where landmines may indeed be used as part of the struggle. Regrettably landmines are often used not specifically for a military objective but more importantly for the objective of sowing disorder, confusion, affecting individuals. It's often been said that at the beginning of this century 90 percent of the victims of conflict around the world were military people; today the percentage is almost exactly reversed -- somewhere between three quarters and 90 percent of the victims of current conflict are civilians who happen to be caught in the cross-fire. And the larger question of how we address conflict around the world calls into play all of the different mechanisms that are adopted at the United Nations, the United States working with our friends around the world, and indeed the countries themselves.

MR. FOUCHEUX: We remain in Pakistan. Let's go once again to Peshawar. Please go ahead again in Peshawar.

Q: (Inaudible) -- from Omar, Afghanistan. My question is there are more than 100,000 landmine victims in Afghanistan. What will be the U.S. policy regarding to help these weapons in support of initiative 2010? Thank you.

AMB. STEINBERG: At the present time we are assisting a number of non-governmental organizations that are operating in that area. As you know, the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation has a very active program to assist those victims. At present we do not have Patrick J. Leahy War Victims assistance for those individuals. There's a real difficulty given the confusion on the ground to having a more active program. But we are in consultation, as you are well aware, with some of the leading players on the ground regarding possible assistance in the future, and I can guarantee you that those discussions will be under way in an interagency meeting that is soon to be held in Washington.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank yo, Peshawar. Let's return to Cairo for another question. Please go ahead in Cairo.

Q: Good morning, gentlemen. My name is -- (inaudible) -- I represent the Ministry of Justice in Egypt today. My question is about the countries responsible for laying landmines in two major areas in Egypt 50 years ago, according to the latest reports it's about a fifth of the landmines all over the world. And the Ottawa treaty did not say anything about the obligation of destroying those landmines that threaten the safety of the civilians and their rights. And I know for sure that that was one of the reasons why Egypt did not sign the treaty. What can Egypt do regarding the international responsibility towards this problem? Thank you.

AMB. STEINBERG: This is a difficult question. International responsibility is not always easy to enforce. However, I would point out, as I did before, that there is now a dialogue going on in Geneva in the context of the CCW, the Convention on Conventional Weapons, to talk about restrictions on landmine use. It would seem to me that the best place for a dialogue of that kind would be in the context of the CD or the CCW in Geneva, since all of those participating in the CCW, the countries that I think you are referring to are among those participants. So I would assume that the best venue for such a dialogue would be in the U.S. context in Geneva.

MR. FOUCHEUX: And once again back to Amman. Please go ahead again in Amman.

Q: This is -- (inaudible) -- again, and I am asking a question on behalf of retired Brigadier General -- (inaudible). He wants to know -- and I think this question is for Ambassador Steinberg, who showed us these comics at the beginning of the program. He wants to know if these comics will be translated into Arabic.

AMB. STEINBERG: We have a remarkable woman in charge of this project, Jeannette Cahn (ph), who is the president of D.C. Comics, and sort of the keeper of Superman and Wonder Woman as it were. She has put up a lot of her own resources, as well as working with our Department of Defense and a group called the Humpty-Dumpty Institute, another group called the Marshall Legacy Institute, to produce a half million of these comic books for each edition. Again, the first one was for Bosnia about a year and a half ago, and it was remarkably successful. Indeed, we can actually point to children who have said that when they identified two government officials a landmine that they found on the ground, have said that the reason that they knew that that was a landmine was because of the comic book. We have just completed and are distributing another half million comic books in Spanish -- Superman and La Muliere Marbilia (ph). We are about, as the third step, to produce the same number of Angola, for Mozambique, for Guinea Bissau and other Luciphone African countries. And I will take in hand the proposal that the next step should indeed be a comic book in Arabic for countries in the Middle East. I think that's an excellent idea, and I will talk with Ms. Cahn (ph) about that proposal.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Let's return once again to Peshawar for another question. Please go ahead once again.

Q: Thank you, gentlemen. This is -- (inaudible) -- again. I would like to direct this question of mine to Ambassador Steinberg. Does the U.S. government have any plan and strategy for the conflict resolution to at least minimize the landmine use by -- (inaudible) -- ? If yes, how does it deal with the insurgent groups where there are hundreds of intrastate conflicts in different parts of the world? Thank you.

AMB. STEINBERG: Regrettably that question goes well beyond my area of responsibility. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to conflict resolution. I've spent the last three years of my life trying to assist through the Joint Commission, working with the United Nations, Portugal, Russia, a variety of other players, to end the conflict in Angola. Obviously we have similar efforts going on working with the United Nations and other players around the world. Again your question calls to mind the very sad situation in which we are always addressing a moving target. As we eliminate landmines in one area new landmines are planted in another. And in Angola for example we are aware that both the government and the opposition UNITA insurgency group are laying landmines. We had a similar situation in Ecuador and Peru that we are now having to address as a guarantor of that peace agreement. There are reports from Sierra Leone, there are reports from Kosovo as well that landmines are being used.

As I've said, regrettably I think you need to address each one in isolation, putting whatever pressure we can on the parties not to use these weapons, reminding them that the current conflict may be over within the space of years, but the threat of landmines in the ground will remain literally forever, and especially weapons that are not self-destructing.

One of the points that I think we need to make here as well, and this goes beyond your question, but I wanted to use the opportunity, is that the United States outside of Korea has pledged not to use any weapon that is not self-destructing. All of the landmines that we will use outside of Korea are self-destructing; that is, within a question of a few hours they blow themselves up on the battlefield. If not, they all have a battery that goes dead within the question of a few days, and therefore they no longer pose a threat.

Regrettably around the world there are literally hundreds of millions of non-self-destructing landmines in stockpiles which are available to insurgency groups and governments, and therefore we have a very firm policy of trying to assist the destruction of those elements as well.

MR. BEECROFT: If I may be permitted to add to Ambassador Steinberg's comments with an anecdote that illustrates just how complicated the human factor is here. When I left Jordan I went to Sarajevo and became acquainted with some of the ways in which landmines are being used in the Balkans. And in a number of cases in the Balkans positions -- farmers -- would actually plant landmines in their own fields as a way of discouraging others from coming in and taking over those fields while they were refugees outside of Bosnia. Unfortunately a number of them never came from Bosnia, or if they came back they did not come back to the farms that they have worked before. Now no one knows where those mines are. Others do come to those fields and attempt to work them and lose limbs or lives. So we are dealing with a problem that goes even beyond insurgence to what individuals see as their interests in protecting their own property. So part of the challenge is to sensitize people around the world to the fact that there is really no non-military circumstances, and few military circumstances in which the use of anti-personnel landmines can be justified at all.

MR. FOUCHEUX: And we return once again to Cairo. Please go ahead once again in Cairo.

Q: My question is for both gentlemen, Mr. Steinberg and Mr. Beecroft. There was a report in the LA Times that the Pentagon is requesting $50 million congressional for the development of a new landmine delivery system -- I guess it's called -- (inaudible). So I see an inconsistency here between U.S. efforts in demining and this request.

AMB. STEINBERG: I think that he report has been misunderstood, and I would like to take this opportunity to clarify it.

What the Department of Defense is asking for is a technology that will be in the strictest sense of the word transitional. Everyone in the United States government understands the need to, as it were, wean the world off the use of anti-personnel landmines. But again, because of the United States' particular role in certain areas of the world, in defending and protecting civilians, we need a technology that will bridge the gap between landmines as we have known them in the past and alternate technologies which we are now working on to replace the use of anti-personnel landmines. There's no guarantee that such technologies will succeed, but we are working as hard as we can to identify them as soon as possible.

In the meantime, the mines that you are referring to, the system that you are referring to, is meant to bridge that gap, and it will be very short term and very specific. The RADAM (ph) system would be used only for launching from artillery, and only in the case of an obvious attack that needed to be responded to. This is not a system that would be deployed widely. In fact, it would not be deployed in the ground at all. It will be used in the case of a true military emergency, and over we hope a very short term. So I think it's important to put the RADAM (ph) system in perspective, and I hope I have done that.

AMB. STEINBERG: The only thing I would add is that even within the RADAM (ph) system the munitions that we are describing are self-destructive within a question of hours. Once they serve their purpose, which is an immediate requirement to prevent a foreign military from deactivating an anti-tank mine -- once they have served that purpose, and it's a very temporary purpose, they either deactivate or destroy themselves. We have never had in the entire history of the use of these weapons a civilian who has been hurt by the systems that we are talking about.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you, Cairo. Back to Amman. Let's go again in Amman.

Q: Are American NGOs ready to support Jordanian NGOs in their endeavors to demine the area?

MR. BEECROFT: Well, absolutely. The United States works with NGOs all the time. I know on the basis of personal experience that U.S. NGOs are active in Jordan in a number of areas already. As we pointed out earlier, and as your military representative pointed out, landmines up until now have been the responsibility of the Jordanian Royal Corps of Engineers. But there is no reason why we and you should not be entering into a dialogue with NGOs to broaden the responsibilities. So the short answer would be absolutely.

MR. FOUCHEUX: And we return again to Peshawar. Please go ahead again in Peshawar.

Q: Thank you. Coming from the Afghan program. My question is you have mentioned earlier there is no direct relation with the Afghan government led by Taliban. But there are so many national Afghan organizations who work since almost 10 years in this field, and they have maintained a record of their -- (inaudible) -- during the conflict. Wouldn't it be appropriate for the U.S. government to help these organizations' national capacity and experience in NGOs and assistance in this country? Thank you.

AMB. STEINBERG: Right. Yes. The answer is that we are continuing to work with a whole number of organizations, but primarily through UNOCHA (ph). The United States has provided more than $21 million since 1993 for assistance to Afghanistan, and in this fiscal year we will be providing $2 million in humanitarian demining assistance. The Afghanistan program, let's not forget, is the largest single program in the world. It is purely humanitarian in scope and in intention. And in spite of the fact that there is no in-place government-to-government program.

Now, as you know the UNOCHA (ph) Mine Action Center, which is in Islamabad, coordinates all of these efforts, and that includes the efforts of international NGOs who are working throughout Afghanistan. So we think that the focus of the program is correct. We are continuing to work with UNOCHA (ph) and with NGOs, and this has proven to be a very effective partnership in extremely difficult circumstances, in spite of the fact that we do not deal with the Taliban government directly.

MR. FOUCHEUX: We have time for one more question on our program today. Let's return to Cairo for a final question.

Q: Gentlemen, we have now in Egypt a lot of -- (inaudible) -- especially in the desert, Sinai and the west desert. And I want to ask you what's new in technology, demining, after -- (inaudible) -- ?

MR. BEECROFT: I'll be happy to start with that. There are a number of new technologies which are being looked at. But let me stress that technology should not be seen as a panacea. The technology has to be used in cooperation with the expertise of the individuals and the human beings who are using it. So we are looking at a number of technologies that address the problem of mines which are predominantly not metal. We are looking -- I mentioned one technology already which in effect smothers a mine while it explodes it, and others that use wheeled or tracked vehicles or radars of various sorts or sensors of various sorts.

Rather than go into detail I would just like to stress that the United States is now putting a major investment into technological research. We will continue to do so. But we have to do it with the human being in mind -- both the human beings that are operating the technology and the human beings whose lives or limbs will be saved by its use.

AMB. STEINBERG: Very briefly, we are working indeed with universities around the United States, with private sector companies that are coming up with new technologies, with our own U.S. government institutes, including from the Defense Department, the Department of Education, the Department of Energy. We even have NASA involved in this, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I was just in Southern California -- went to the Jet Propulsion Lab, and the rocket scientists at NASA are trying to use the same technology that we use to detect life on Mars to identify where landmines are on Earth. And we'd like to say that the same United Nations that is detecting life on Mars is protecting life here on Earth.

But as Assistant Secretary Beecroft has said, the advantage here on Earth is that we have human intelligence. We have people who know where the landmines are in general terms and are prepared to assist us in getting rid of them.

MR. FOUCHEUX: Ambassador Donald Steinberg and Deputy Assistant Secretary Robert Beecroft, thank you both very much for joining us today. My thanks as well to all of our guests who were with us from Pakistan, Jordan and Egypt. In Washington, I'm Rick Foucheux. Thanks for watching, and good day.

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