11 February 2001 Powell Addresses Missile Defense on "Face the Nation" (Link to discussions of missile defense, Iraq) The accidental collision of a U.S. Navy submarine and a Japanese fishing trawler off the coast of Hawaii that sank the trawler was "a terrible tragedy and we have expressed our apology and our condolences at every level.... We're very, very sorry it happened," Secretary of State Colin Powell said February 11 in an interview on CBS-TV's Sunday Talk Show, "Face the Nation." The United States is doing everything it can to help the families of the victims, and give them all the information that it can, said Powell. On the subject of missile defense, Powell was asked if there's any situation he could envision in which the administration would say, hold off, we're not going to do it. Powell responded: "No. We've got to keep moving forward. We believe it is important to take advantage of the technology that is available and to take note of the threats that are out there." Missile defense, Powell said, is "part of an overall strategic framework. So you don't have missile defense standing alone. It stands with our strategic offensive weapons. It stands with our arms control discussions and negotiations, and it stands with our non-proliferation efforts." "If we can make it work," he said, "then we can demonstrate, I'm convinced, to everybody, our European friends, the Russians and the Chinese, friends around the world, that it is in their interest for us to go forward with this kind of protective technology which threatens no one. The only thing it does is shoots down missiles that are headed toward them and us." On his upcoming trip to the Middle East, the Secretary of State said he would speak to the leaders in the region about the Middle East negotiations process. "This is a time for patience," he said. "This is a time to encourage everybody to keep the violence down" and give Israel's new Prime Minister Ariel Sharon time to form a government, he said. "And then we can enter into negotiations again with the Palestinians. And you will find that President Bush will be involved, I will be engaged, and we'll do whatever is appropriate to keep that moving forward." Powell also said he would discuss with leaders in the region "the absolute necessity" that Iraq's leader Saddam Hussein honor his commitments to the United Nations not to pursue development of weapons of mass destruction. "I will be in Egypt. I will be in Jordan. I will be in Israel. I'll visit the Palestinians, West Bank and Gaza, one or both. I will also be going to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait for the 10th anniversary of the Gulf War," said Powell. "And I am also going to be stopping in Damascus, Syria, to meet with President Bashar Assad. And I'll try to come back with an assessment of the situation so that I can present a report to President Bush as to what we should be doing." Following is the transcript of Powell's interview on CBS: U.S. Department of State Office of the Spokesman Interview of Secretary of State Colin L. Powell By Bob Schieffer and Gloria Borger of CBS's Face the Nation February 11, 2001 Washington, D.C. Mr. Schieffer: And we're delighted to have the Secretary of State with us this morning. Welcome, Mr. Secretary. Let me ask you first about this sub accident. The U.S. sub undergoing some kind of training exercise suddenly surfaces, hits a Japanese boat, students are missing. It just seems to be a real mess. Do you have any information about how this happened, and is there anything late on this? Secretary Powell: Well, it's a terrible tragedy, and we have expressed our apology and our condolences at every level. I expressed the President's apology and condolences to the Japanese Foreign Minister yesterday. Secretary Rumsfeld spoke to his colleague, the Minister of Defense. I don't have the details on what happened, and I think we'll have to wait for the Department of Defense and the Navy to conduct that investigation, but it is a tragedy, and we're very, very sorry it happened. But I'm also pleased that our relationship with Japan is so strong that we should not see this damage our relationship. We are also doing everything we can to help the families, to give them all the information that we can. And Ambassador Foley has gone to Osaka to see the families off as they go to Honolulu to get firsthand information and to be reunited with their loved ones, and to get information on the nine people who are still missing. Mr. Schieffer: There were reports on the wires this morning out of Japan that the submarine crew did not offer any assistance or help in the beginning to the people that were on board this boat. Secretary Powell: I saw those reports, and I don't have any additional information on it. I'm sure that once the sub got to the surface it had to stabilize itself before opening its hatches and the crew members coming out. But I think let's wait before we pass judgment on what the crew might have done. Mr. Schieffer: Gloria. Ms. Borger: You are going to the Middle East at the end of this month. Some people in your Administration have said that the Clinton Administration was very "activist" in its approach to negotiations for peace in the Middle East. What is going to be your approach as you go to this region? Secretary Powell: We will be active as well, and we will try to see the Middle East peace process, as it's called, put in a broader regional context. So I'm going to speak to the leaders in the region. I will be in Egypt, I will be in Jordan, I will be in Israel. I will visit the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, one or both. I will also be going to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait for the 10th anniversary of the Gulf War. And I am also going to be stopping in Damascus, Syria, to meet with President Bashir Assad, and I'll try to come back with an assessment of the situation so that I can present a report to President Bush as to what we should be doing. The key thing here is that we have to let the two sides decide what positions they are going to be holding in the new negotiation, which will begin in due course after Prime Minister-elect Sharon forms his government. So this is a time for patience. This is a time to encourage everybody to keep the violence down, and give Mr. Sharon time to form a government that will reflect the will of the Israeli people, and then we can enter into negotiations again with the Palestinians. And you will find that President Bush will be involved, I will be engaged, and we'll do whatever is appropriate to keep that moving forward. Mr. Schieffer: I heard you just say that you're going to Syria. Secretary Powell: Yes. Mr. Schieffer: This is something new, I believe. When was this added to the trip, and what's the purpose of that stop? Secretary Powell: It was just added within the last 24 hours. Syria is an important nation in the region, an important player in this whole process, and so I thought it was very, very appropriate for me as part of this quick trip through the Middle East, my first trip, to also stop in Syria for just a few hours. Mr. Schieffer: Let me ask you about something that happened last night. Apparently, former President Clinton made a speech, and he seemed to congratulate Sharon for inviting Mr. Barak to be the Defense Minister. I would like to ask you what you think about that, number one? And, number two, do you find it somewhat improper that the former president -- would you consider this an intrusion by the former president to be commenting this soon on developments in the Middle East? Secretary Powell: President Clinton is, of course, a private citizen and free to comment on anything he wishes to, so I wouldn't consider it improper. Past former presidents have sort of had a state of grace for a while where they have not commented on ongoing issues, but there is nothing improper in doing so. Mr. Schieffer: Well, was it helpful? Secretary Powell: It didn't affect us in any way. I don't know whether it's helpful or unhelpful. I don't think it cut either way, and he's certainly free to do so. Mr. Schieffer: Well, I guess what I'm asking you is, would you prefer he be quiet for a while? Secretary Powell: I have no preference. He's free to do whatever he wishes to do as a private citizen. Mr. Schieffer: Well, what about this idea of some sort of a unity government. Do you think that has promise? Secretary Powell: I think that has promise, but I think it's up to the Israeli people and the Prime Minister-elect and the two parties and the other parties in the Israeli political system to decide what the nature of that government should be. I don't think it should be the role of the American President or the American Secretary of State to tell them what kind of government best reflects the will of the Israeli people. Ms. Borger: This is, as you know, the tenth anniversary of the Gulf War. Do you believe Saddam Hussein is stronger or weaker than he was? Secretary Powell: He's weaker, he's much weaker. That million-man army of ten years ago is gone. He is sitting on a very much smaller army of perhaps 350,000 that does not have the capacity to invade its neighbors any longer. He is living in three concentric rings of jails that he has created for himself in order to protect himself behind a security cordon. He has a great deal of money available to him through our Oil-for-Food Program, which he refuses to use entirely for the benefit of his people and for his children. Instead, he continues to pursue weapons of mass destruction to threaten the people and children of the region. Ms. Borger: But the CIA director told Congress this week that Hussein has "grown more confident" in his ability to hold onto his power. Secretary Powell: I'm sure he can hold on to his power, but if power is essentially sitting in palaces in Baghdad while the rest of the world leaves you behind, and you are wasting the treasure of your people, I don't consider this confidence that is well deserved. I think it would be better if he were less confident in a democratic system where he was responsive to the will of the people. What he can't do is invade his neighbors any more, but he can threaten his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction, which is why we entered into this agreement at the end of the Gulf War to contain his ability to move in that direction. And in my trip I'm going to be telling everybody in the region -- I'm also going to be discussing with our friends in the Security Council -- the absolute necessity of making sure that he is not allowed to simply walk away from this and pursue weapons of mass destruction. Mr. Schieffer: Well, let me just ask you about this, then, because we're now seeing that Russia and France are showing signs they want to ease the sanctions on Iraq. There are commercial flights arriving there daily with uninspected cargo. There have been no arms inspections since 1998. What could or should be done about that? Secretary Powell: Well, but there are some positive signs here. We have been able to keep weapons from going into Iraq. We have been able to keep the sanctions in place to the extent that items that might support weapons of mass destruction development have had some controls on them. We have also had the Oil-for-Food Program that puts some controls on the use of the money that is made available to him so that that money is used for peaceful, safe purposes. But at the same time, there is a lot of smuggling. There is leakage in the regime of controls that are around him. But I think we can rally again, pull that coalition back together. It hasn't broken up, it hasn't fallen apart. A few planes going in from time to time does not cause this to be a failure. In fact, it's been quite a success for ten years, but there is leakage, there is slippage. And I think it's my responsibility, for President Bush, to try to rally again to make sure we keep the finger pointed where it deserves to be pointed, on the Iraqi regime, and not the Iraqi people, and remind everybody in the region he isn't threatening America; he is threatening the nations of the region, every nation around him, and we all have an obligation to make sure that he complies. And it should not be us begging for him to let the inspectors in. At the end of the day, he's going to have to let the inspectors in if he wishes ultimately to recapture freedom of movement totally. Mr. Schieffer: But how do you do that? I mean, you're saying that the inspectors need to be going back in there. How do you do that? Secretary Powell: Well, we have to wait and make sure that he understands that he will continue to pay a rather significant price for his intransigence, and he will not escape from the regime that has been placed around him entirely until he satisfies the international community that he is no longer doing what he says he isn't doing. And if he isn't doing it, but he's lying, and we know he's lying, and so he is doing it. And until he is willing to let people come in who can verify that he isn't doing it, we can consider that he is still lying to us. Ms. Borger: Do you have a time frame for this? Secretary Powell: I am going to the region. I have already begun speaking to members of the -- the Permanent Members of the Security Council. I've been talking to the many foreign leaders who I've met with over the last three weeks, some 25 foreign leaders I've seen in the last three weeks. Ms. Borger: This is for the return of inspectors. Are you saying to people we want to return inspectors by date X? Secretary Powell: No, I have no such date in mind, nor do I think we should have such a date in mind. The sanctions and the other controls that are on him stay in place until the inspectors do go in. Mr. Schieffer: I understand that the Administration has already funneled some money into opposition groups to Saddam Hussein. Mr. Secretary, do you think that in the end that can be effective, that those groups can be effective? Secretary Powell: I think that they are part of an overall strategy. And keep in mind, the opposition, the Iraqi opposition groups that we're supporting, are separate from the UN efforts. This is something the United States is doing. And I think that they can be effective in some of the public diplomacy actions they have undertaken, in broadcasting or getting information to the Iraqi people about the nature of their regime and what their leadership is costing them. I think in terms of providing humanitarian relief. And we are always looking to see what else the Iraqi opposition might do that makes sense and supports our policies. Ms. Borger: Can I turn for a moment to something that's domestic policy related. There were hearings this week about the Marc Rich pardon, and President Clinton's pardon of him. And at those hearings, the Deputy Attorney General, the former Deputy Attorney General, Eric Holder, said that one reason he remained kind of neutral on this pardon was that it might have some national security implications given the letters of support for the pardon from, say, Mr. Barak in Israel. Do you see any national security implications at all in this pardon? Secretary Powell: I must say, I didn't follow these hearings with any particular interest because it's a little out of my portfolio. But from what I have read and what I have seen, I can detect no national security implications in this matter. Mr. Schieffer: Let me ask you also about another domestic matter, and that is taxes. John DiIulio, who is going to head up the faith-based organizations for the Bush Administration, was quoted this week as saying the elimination of the tax on inheritances would sound the death knell for charitable organizations. Now, you headed one of the biggest charitable organizations. What's your take on that, Mr. Secretary? Secretary Powell: I didn't study that in any detail. I did head up a very, very important crusade that I'm proud of: America's Promise. Mr. Schieffer: And you still wear the pin. Secretary Powell: I still wear my little red wagon pin, giving hope to children, and now I want to take this little red wagon message around the world. All children in the world need help from those who have been successful within their societies. But I don't have a particular -- I don't have anything really to add on Mr. DiIulio's statement. I have become more and more interested in estate taxes in the course of the last few years -- (laughter) -- and I am watching it with great interest. And I think anything we can do to reduce the tax burden on the American people is a good thing to do. Ms. Borger: Can I just ask you very quickly, this Administration supports a missile defense system. Everybody knows that, that in the end the Administration is going to propose some kind of missile defense. Do you think there's any situation that you can envision in which the Administration would say hold off, we're not going to do it? Secretary Powell: No, we've got to keep moving forward. We believe that it is important to take advantage of the technology that is available and to take note of the threats that are out there. And we see missile defense as part of an overall strategic framework, so you don't have missile defense standing alone; it stands with our strategic offensive weapons, it stands with our arms control discussions and negotiations, and it stands with our nonproliferation efforts. One way to get rid of the threat is to have nations that would be friends of ours not to sell this kind of technology to nations that would not be friends of ours. And so you have to see it in its totality. And it would be irresponsible for us to set missile defense aside and say, it's too hard, too many people don't like it, we're causing all kind of political problems, therefore set it aside. That would be irresponsible. If we can make it work, then we can demonstrate, I'm convinced, to everybody -- our European friends, the Russians and the Chinese, friends around the world -- that it is in their interest for us to go forward with this kind of protective technology which threatens no one. The only thing it does is it shoots down missiles that are headed toward them or us. Mr. Schieffer: We're going to have to leave it right there. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for coming by. Secretary Powell: Thank you, Bob. Thank you, Gloria. Mr. Schieffer: We hope to see you many times in the coming years. Secretary Powell: Thank you. (Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov) Return to the Washington File