Transcript: American Embassy TV Broadcast on U.S.-Haiti Counter-Drug Efforts

03 August 2001

Transcript: American Embassy TV Broadcast on U.S.-Haiti Counter-Drug Efforts

Law enforcement experts cite need for improved partnership

The August 1 broadcast of "Dialogue," a program aired by American Embassy Television, featured a guest appearance by two U.S. law enforcement experts to discuss recent U.S.-Haiti counter-drug cooperation. The experts spoke via satellite with participants in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, and described aspects of successful bilateral operations while also expressing their hope for a closer drug-interdiction relationship between the United States and Haiti.

Following is a transcript of the broadcast:

(begin transcript)

"DIALOGUE"

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of Broadcast Services
Washington, D.C.

GUESTS:

Michael Vigil, Chief of International Operations, Drug Enforcement Administration, Washington, D.C.
Lieutenant Commander Christopher Adair, Office of Law Enforcement Drug Interdiction Division, United States Coast Guard

TOPIC: Narcotics Smuggling and Interdiction

POST: Port-au-Prince

HOST: Maria Siccardi

DATE: August 1, 2001
TIME: 15:00 -- 16:00 EDT

MS. SICCARDI: Good afternoon, and welcome to the American Embassy Television Network. I'm Maria Dell Carmen Siccardi, your host for today's "Dialogue."

According to the U.S. State Department's large 2001 international narcotics control strategy report, Haiti's counternarcotics initiatives have suffered due to long political crisis and economic instability. After last November's election of President Jean Bertrand Aristide, the new parliament moved quickly to approve anti-drug legislation and a national drug control strategy.

While Haiti continues to be a major transshipment point for South American narcotics, the cocaine flow through Haiti decreased last year, and the government of Haiti has collaborated on maritime and multilateral interdiction operations.

With us today in the studio we have two gentlemen that will be discussing with you narcotics smuggling and interdiction. They are Mr. Michael Vigil, chief of international operations at the Washington, D.C., headquarters of the Drug Enforcement Administration. Previous to this assignment, Mr. Vigil was the special agent in charge of the Caribbean field division of DEA. In his long career with DEA, Mr. Vigil has received honors and recognition for both foreign and domestic assignments. Our other guest is Lieutenant Commander Christopher Adair of the United States Coast Guard. Commander Adair is assigned to Coast Guard headquarters here in Washington, D.C., and the Office of Law Enforcement, Drug Interdiction Division. Commander Adair has served at sea on many Coast Guard vessels, and he has considerable experience in Coast Guard maritime law enforcement, having carried out operations in drug interdiction and alien migrant interdiction. Gentlemen, thank you very much for having joined us today on "Dialogue."

And before we go to the interactive portion of our show, I would like to ask Mr. Vigil first what is the connection between the national headquarters of DEA here in Washington in collaboration with what your operations take place in the field in the Caribbean.

MR. VIGIL: Well, we coordinate a lot of operations, initiatives, investigations, with our foreign offices as well as the local offices. There is a lot of support that is rendered by DEA headquarters to our field offices in terms of allowing them to do a better job in carrying out their roles and responsibilities.

MS. SICCARDI: Are you pretty much calling the shots up here for what happens down there?

MR. VIGIL: Well, we do have operational control. However, a lot of times it's very difficult to actually call the operations from here. You know, we normally allow the field to do that. But we do provide oversight and guidance in terms of the initiatives that are carried out abroad.

MS. SICCARDI: How about Commander Adair?

CMDR. ADAIR: Well, the United States Coast Guard is broken down, quite the command-and-control organization with two theater commanders, both in Atlantic and Pacific area, and each of those areas is responsible for a number of Coast Guard districts, a smaller geographic area. My office and the Office of Law Enforcement coordinates the strategic planning and provide strategic guidance to the area commanders and to the districts for the execution of maritime drug interdiction. And the Coast Guard, as the lead agency for maritime drug interdiction, has a pretty daunting challenge down there. We have quite the organization to respond to that.

MS. SICCARDI: Okay, both our guests have very key positions here in Washington in terms of the development of strategies with drug interdiction.

So we are going to let our guests in Haiti go ahead with their comments and questions to our participants. So go ahead from the embassy at Port-au-Prince. We want to listen to your comments and your questions. Please go ahead.

Q: This is Gary Pierre Peauchal (ph) speaking. I am the news director at Telemax (ph). I have a question for Mr. Adair. What is the United States doing to cooperate with the Haitian Coast Guard? Because we know that there are problems with respect to this. Please?

CMDR. ADAIR: The United States Coast Guard up until December of 2000 had a very good working relationship, a good partnership, with the Haitian Coast Guard. The United States Coast Guard assisted with a mobile training team of four members that were actually in country in Haiti working on a daily basis with the Haitian Coast Guard. But after December the team was removed from Haiti by congressional direction in the United States for the purposes of the differences that the United States government's opinions or thoughts of the election practices in Haiti. And that necessitated the removal of a Coast Guard mobile training team from Haiti at that time.

We do look forward, however, to re-establishing that relationship, and the Coast Guard feels that that is very important to the United States and to Haiti equally -- a good, solid counter-drug partnership. I hope that answers your question.

Q: (Off mike) -- is my name, chief editor at Radio Ibo (ph). My question [is] for Mr. Michael Vigil. Our parliament has just ratified an agreement that was signed under the Clinton and Preval governments. I would like to know if the United States -- I wonder if the United States has already connected operations that allow them to go into the other territory to conduct operations against traffickers, and had success. Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: At the present time we coordinate a lot of investigations and initiatives with the Haitian National Police. As a matter of fact, we established a DEA office in Port-au-Prince in 1987. It is currently staffed with eight special agents and an office assistant. This office has coordinated a lot of investigations in Port-au-Prince and in the northern part of Haiti. The initiatives have proven to be very, very successful. As a matter of fact, the Haitian government has been coordinating with the U.S. government in terms of many issues, to include the expulsion of third-country nationals not only into the United States but also into the Dominican Republic.

The Haitian National Police has also coordinated with DEA and other countries in the Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America, on multi-regional operations, which have proven to be very successful in the development of regional strategies and, more importantly, in the exchange of information. And I think that that is absolutely critical to our counter-drug strategy in the region, in that given the transnational nature of crime it is absolutely essential that we amplify the channels for the exchange of information so that we can expand our operational parameters and ensure that we have an adequate impact on these drug trafficking organizations that operate in the region.

Q: My name is -- (inaudible) -- I work at Radio Metropole. My question is for Commander Adair. I listened with interest to the introduction that the moderator of this program presented. She talked about the reduction of the quantity of drugs transiting Haiti. I also listened to the commander's statement. It told us a moment ago that there were four Coast Guard members helping the Haitian Coast Guard that had been sent home. I wonder, haven't we seen an increase in the amount of drugs passing into Haiti? Fourteen percent of the drugs coming out of Colombia came through Haiti last year. So I think we have more, not less. And don't you think there is a risk that there will be even more drugs transiting Haiti? Thank you.

CMDR. ADAIR: Well, I think that that question is probably best answered by my colleague here, Mr. Vigil, although I can't say that the Coast Guard team that previously was in Haiti was there for the purposes of training and development of the Haitian Coast Guard. But I would like to defer the answer to Mr. Vigil.

MR. VIGIL: In answer to your question, from 1999 to 2000, we had an interagency assessment that put the flow of cocaine movement through Haiti at 14 percent. That amount is now lower. And I would say it's probably in the area of 10 to 11 percent of the cocaine flowing through Haiti. However, that can change very rapidly, given the dynamics of the drug trafficking transit patterns, not only in Central America, South America, but also in the Caribbean. That can change drastically. We know that the Colombian drug traffickers are taking advantage of the lack of infrastructure in Haiti to smuggle drug loads into that country. And then from there they are transported into the Dominican Republic, on occasion into Puerto Rico and sometimes to the northern area of Haiti where they use Cap-Haitien and these areas as staging areas to transport the drugs, usually by coastal freighter, into the United States, principally into southern Florida.

But to answer your question, at this point in time there is lesser amounts going to Haiti. But again that can change very, very rapidly.

Q: My name is Pierre Gregory (ph). I am the spokesman for the Ministry of Justice and Public Safety. My question is for Mr. Vigil. The minister of justice and public security practically presented a bill in parliament to vigorously combat drug trafficking. But since we don't have resources in this country, especially our Coast Guard does not, and especially since you sent home those who were cooperating with us, we don't have resources that can be given to our ministry to combat drug trafficking. If you consider our strategic position, the quantity of drugs coming through us is enormous from other countries of Latin America. Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: Well, the thing is, you know, I disagree. I think that we are providing resources to the Ministry of Justice. We work very closely with the Haitian National Police. We have worked very diligently in establishing a counter-drug arm within the Colombian National Police, which was established in 1997. And we continue to provide them with training, with necessary equipment. And hopefully in the future we can basically expand the BLTS, or the counter-drug arm, of the Haitian National Police.

I think we are still a long way away in terms of developing the infrastructure of this institution, because I think that we need to look at better salaries, we need to look at improving the morale, because up until about three years ago the Haitian National Police were 5,000 strong. And because of the depletion of ranks it is now between 3,500 and 4,000. And I don't think that Haiti, given the fact that it has no standing military, can afford a disintegration of its police, which are also tasked with police responsibilities, and also public security responsibilities.

But we are working very diligently with other agencies, such as State Department and other countries, in ensuring that we develop the police institution of the Haitian National Police, which is absolutely critical not only to the country of Haiti, but also to the region in terms of making sure that we do not have a national security issue in that country.

Q: This is Gary Pierre Peauchal (ph) again from Telemax. My question is for Mr. Adair. Considering that sometimes drugs go out of Colombia to Haiti, a transit country, and then directly to the United States market, I wonder what you do in the United States to control these three entities, and I wonder what you do about the transit country, because after all it goes through that country and it ends up in the American market. I wonder if you have used strategies to understand well the way that this machine functions. Thank you.

CMDR. ADAIR: That's a very good question, and I think that I can cover most of that. The Coast Guard, United States Coast Guard, is the lead agency, lead U.S. federal agency in maritime drug interdiction. Specifically, the Coast Guard is tasked with or is responsible to curb the non-commercial maritime flow of cocaine bound for the United States. Now, non-commercial maritime flow is comprised of small speed-boats, fishing vessels, small coastal freighters, vessels of that nature.

Now, the Coast Guard believes in a defense in-depth strategy, where if we operate as close to the source countries in your reference Colombia in this case, we try to operate as close to the source as possible, and do everything that we can to interdict the drugs as quickly as they depart the country.

Unfortunately the area is such a large area of responsibility, and the number of resources that the Coast Guard has at its disposal just does not rise to the challenge.

With regard to drugs that are headed toward the United States through Haiti, Haiti is certainly acknowledged as a transshipment country. We recognize the significant threat there. The Coast Guard does employ resources in international waters to the south between Colombia and Haiti in an effort to interdict the vessels that are transiting towards Haiti.

On the United States side of Haiti, the U.S. government has teamed up with several other agencies in Miami to conduct operations along the Miami River. The United States Coast Guard has supported the U.S. Customs and the Florida State Department of Law Enforcement to conduct interdiction operations of vessels that come from Haiti and are now tied up in Miami along the Miami River. And they've made several seizures, and the operation has been quite successful.

MS. SICCARDI: (Off mike) -- DEA takes care of the commercial vessels? Who does?

MR. VIGIL: No, we really don't have the resources to deal with sea interdiction, and that's basically handled by the U.S. Coast Guard. And let me say this, that the U.S. Coast Guard is really a significant player in terms of counter-drug efforts. I have worked in the Caribbean, I have worked in Mexico, I've worked in South America, and I think that they really truly deserve a lot of credit for the work that they've done. They have other missions, but they have focused very heavily on counter-drug efforts. And I think a lot of times they don't get the recognition or credit that they deserve. But they are a key player in terms of U.S. strategy in terms of the interdiction of drugs.

But let me say this, that we not only engage in interdiction, but we also work very closely with the foreign governments in terms of coordinating investigations, the sharing of information. And I think that a lot of times, you know, if we cannot immobilize these organizations in these foreign countries we look at U.S.-based indictments so that hopefully if we don't have extradition treaties interdictions we can establish those. But I think that one of the things that the traffickers feel most is extradition into the United States, and in this way it actually effectively moves them from their power base into an area where they no longer have power base, where they no longer have the means of controlling their organizations.

Q: (Off mike) -- from Radio Ibo again. I now have a question for Mr. Adair. Now, the U.S. drug authorities and the Haitian police have conducted a lot of joint seizure operations. In Haiti we often go about burning the drugs to destroy them. What strategy do you use for doing away with the seized drugs?

CMDR. ADAIR: Well, the U.S. Coast Guard, when they make a seizure in international waters, which is where the vast majority of Coast Guard drug seizures occur, the drugs are usually removed from the vessel. Or if the quantity of the drugs is too large to allow us to remove it we will escort the vessel and the contraband and turn it over to the United States Customs Service and DEA for purposes of investigation. Those two agencies -- they take it from there, and they dispose of the drugs in whatever manner they deem as most effective. Mr. Vigil may be able to expand on that a little.

MR. VIGIL: Basically we have very structured and regimented procedures for the destruction of drugs. When large quantities of drugs are seized, normally we destroy most of it quickly, and we send random samples to our laboratories for testing. We do both a quantitative and a qualitative analysis to be used in terms of prosecutions at a later date, but it's a very stringent procedure. And, again, it has worked very well for our agency.

Q: My name is -- (inaudible) -- I work at Radio Metropole. I have a question for Mr. Vigil. You emphasized in an earlier statement the various weaknesses of the National Police. You even said that the police have to do two jobs because there is no Haitian army in fact. When you talked about the reduction of percentage of drugs transiting Haiti, the '99-2000 report, you said 14 percent, and now we are saying 11 percent. I'm trying to understand now. The Haitian police work under increasingly difficult circumstances. Your four trainers from the U.S. Coast Guard have been sent home. So I would like to understand how in spite of these increasingly difficult situations for the Haitian police there has been a decrease. Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: I think that again drug trafficking trends and patterns are very dynamic. A lot of times they will go into different areas. The focal point of these drug trafficking organizations may change due to many reasons -- Coast Guard presence, presence of U.S. entities for example in the Caribbean. Like I said, this situation can change very, very quickly. And drug trafficking organizations are very adept at modifying their strategies in terms of modifying the areas that they use for the transshipment of drugs.

But I will say this, is that the Haitian National Police, as I mentioned earlier, have participated in multinational operations. Several years ago there was an operation called Genesis, which brought the Dominican government and the Haitian government together in terms of counter-drug efforts. And after this operation the Haitian government expelled the wife, son and brother-in-law of one of the major Colombian drug traffickers -- they didn't have judicial venue in Haiti -- and they turned them over to the Dominican authorities. Later the Dominican authorities arrested an individual that was responsible for several killings, and they found him getting ready to board an American Airlines flight to New York, and they in turn turned him over to the Haitians for prosecution. So there's a lot of things that are taking place in Haiti. I commend the Haitian National Police for their efforts. They participated in many regional endeavors, and they have really done a lot with the resources and the capabilities that they have.

Obviously there's a long way to go in terms of developing the police institution, the infrastructure, but I think that the Haitian government has also started to take action in terms of eliminating corruption and cleaning their own house in this regard. So in that area I think that they deserve much credit.

Q: Gregory Pierre (ph), spokesman of the Ministry of Justice and Public Security. The Haitian government has always showed a strong desire and determination to combat drugs. There's at least agreement with the United States that allows you to enter Haitian territory to pursue traffickers. But I wonder what you are doing to deal with the drug problem in the producing countries. I am not just talking about exchanging in training. Thank you.

CMDR. ADAIR: There's many things that we are doing in the producer countries. Obviously we have offices in those areas. We provide a lot of assistance in terms of equipment, training. There's a lot going on in terms of regional operationals, regional initiatives. There's major coordination in terms of investigations involving drug trafficking organizations that not only have impact on those producer countries, but also have impact on other areas in the world.

I think that our biggest forte in DEA is our foreign infrastructure, and I think that we have a tremendous rapport, liaison and coordination of efforts with these foreign countries. I would say that Colombia has done exceptionally well in terms of the immobilization of a lot of the more significant organizations that operated there for many years. I am talking about Pablo Escobar, Rodriguez Gatcha (ph) out of Medellin and then the Rodriguez Orejuela brothers and others out of the Cali area. So I -- you know, we take a look at our endeavors in Bolivia, where we have been working very diligently with the Bolivian government in eliminating approximately 80 percent of the coca cultivation there, and providing aid and alternate development. We also take a look at Peru in terms of the diminishing of coca cultivation in those areas. We work not only in Latin America, but we also have a lot of investigations and many endeavors that are taking place in Europe and the Far East. So it's really a global solution to a global problem. And, as I mentioned before, the key here is the cooperative efforts between countries.

MS. SICCARDI: Is the Coast Guard in collaboration with other countries as well?

CMDR. ADAIR: The U.S. Coast Guard is very much so engaged. The United States government, in particular the State Department, has negotiated, and the United States government is engaged or is a signatory with 22 maritime bilateral counter-drug agreements with transit zone countries, and those agreements permit the United States Coast Guard to expand its jurisdiction with those countries to prevent traffickers from using the foreign territory, in particular foreign territorial seas of these countries int he transit zone, such as Haiti, in an effort to prevent traffickers from using their territory as a way to evade apprehension by interdiction assets in the transit zone.

Q: This is Gary Pierre Peauchal (ph) from Telemax again. Mr. Vigil, I'd like to know if the United States has invested first of all in training of the PNH, second, training with in the PNH, and third communication within the PNH. Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: When you refer to the PNH, are you talking about the National Police of Haiti?

Q: Certainly.

MR. VIGIL: We have engaged in a lot of training with the Haitian National Police. We have through the State Department and other entities provided vehicles and equipment in order to allow them to do a better job in terms of counter-drug efforts.

As I mentioned earlier, the BLTS at this point in time consists of 49 officers, and we have assisted the Haitian government in terms of providing them with semi-vetted units where they are polygraphed or there are some background investigations that are done. And I think that what needs to be done in the future is that we need to expand the capabilities of the counter-drug arm, the BLTS of the Haitian National Police in order to allow them to provide geographical coverage to the entire country.

As you well know Haiti is a major area for go-fast boats. You know, you have a lot of uncontrolled containerized cargo just in Port-au-Prince. And then your primary staging areas are along the Cap-Haitien area. And then along the border with the Dominican Republic, Malpasse (ph) is a key area along that border. And we know that 85 to 95 percent of the vehicular and pedestrian traffic between both countries goes through that area. So it is a critical area as far as I am concerned.

Q: (Off mike) -- from Radio Ibo again. I am wondering about globalization. We talk about free markets, free movement of persons. I have a question for both of the panelists in Washington, Mr. Vigil and Mr. Adair. Don't you think that this new globalization is creating a freer circulation of drug flow? Thank you.

CMDR. ADAIR: Well, the thing is that a lot of times the drug traffickers exploit the international telecommunications systems that are -- you know, the advances in this area; the free trade agreements that are being reached between countries; the passage or the lessening if you will of immigration, migration. All of these are exploited by drug trafficking organizations. And many of these consortiums actually operate like Fortune 500 companies, and they are truly global in nature. They are very resilient, because a lot of them are polydrug -- not only do they engage in heroin, but many times cocaine, MDMA, methamphetamine. And therefore I am an advocate, a very strong advocate of global cooperation. And it's only through global cooperation and regional strategies that we will really truly have an impact on these drug trafficking networks.

Q: My name is -- (inaudible) -- I work at Radio Metropole. My question is for Mr. Vigil. You just mentioned the power of these cartels. Don't you think that this is more or less a fight that's not even worth fighting, because we'll lose even before we try to start doing it? Because the dealers have a lot of financial resources, they have many kinds of resources in terms of communications. They have access to worldwide international communications.

MR. VIGIL: Well, let me say this, that if I felt that this was a losing cause, I would not be engaged in this type of endeavor. I truly feel that we can make an impact in terms of the drug trafficking situation. I think that we need a balanced approach. I think it's not only an issue of operations or enforcement actions, but I think that we need to look at demand reduction activities. I think that we need to look at treatment facilities. And it truly needs to be a community enterprise. You know, a lot of times people talk about police efforts, police actions, and it doesn't tell all of the story. I think that we need to look at parents, we need to look at the church, we need to look at the schools. And everybody has a role in terms of the counter-drug effort. I feel that if we all work with one another and get the countries to work with one another -- pass adequate legislation, develop the infrastructures, and then also engage in demand reduction, preventive and treatment facilities, I really feel that this is a campaign that can be won.

And it's not only an issue anymore of drug abuse, but I think that most countries recognize the fact that this is a national security issue that impacts on the overall well-being of their individual countries.

CMDR. ADAIR: If I could add to that, the U.S. Coast Guard realizes full well that the United States is not alone in this thing, and they are in the battle against drug smuggling. Drugs are not only a problem for the United States, but they are also a problem because these people who are trafficking in drugs are using the countries like Haiti, and they are abusing the countries and they are abusing the people in those countries to their own ends. And the Coast Guard is everyday working to further strengthen partnerships throughout all the nations in the Caribbean Basin, including Haiti. We look forward to one day going back and working with Haiti, because we have agreements to make the smuggler's job as difficult as it can be. We have these agreements with our other partners in the region, in the same region as Haiti, and we would like Haiti to join us in that fight.

Q: Gregory Pierre (ph), spokesman for the Ministry of Justice and Public Security again. I wonder if worldwide cooperation is possible, because in each government drug issues are considered differently. And also the cartels take advantage of corruption. Do you think that worldwide cooperation is possible?

MR. VIGIL: I think that worldwide cooperation is possible. I mentioned the fact that many of these countries look at drug trafficking as a national security threat, and they fully recognize that unless they take decisive action that they may have an insidious and expansive drug trafficking situation that can become a silent government, if you will, within their respective government, and that destroys the economic fabric, the social fabric. And I think that given that more and more countries are willing to come into the fold if you will in terms of addressing this issue.

I remember several years ago we had what we call the International Drug Enforcement Conference that is held in different countries in Latin America, and we had a lot of political differences, obviously differences in the economic systems and what have you. And it was very fragmented. During the last several years we have embarked on a new relationship, a new willingness to work with one another, the expansion in terms of exchange of information, and we have done operations involving 36 countries. All of these countries have at one time had some political differences, but that is an example of cooperation and the willingness to now look at global cooperation in terms of addressing this problem. It is not something that gels or comes into place overnight, but through hard work and the efforts of many. This is something that we can truly accomplish, and I feel very strongly about that.

Q: Gary Pierre Peauchal (ph) from Telemax (ph). You know that Haiti is now going through a tremendous political crisis. In other words, the National Police has had scandals even having to do with drug trafficking. And in spite of this crisis, bilateral and multilateral aid is blocked. So we wonder if there's a possibility that other persons might be participating in the drug traffic. If we open up the aid I wonder how that would be a consequence. So if Haiti is brought back into the community of nations, don't you think that might have good consequences for fighting drugs? Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: My personal opinion is that we need to continue working with the government of Haiti in developing the police infrastructure. We need to look at working with them in terms of passing necessary legislation that would allow ample impact against drug trafficking in that country.

I believe that we are still working very diligently in terms of coordinating investigations and what have you. Obviously the enormous amounts of profits that are derived from drug trafficking are used as a corruptive and erosive effect in terms of a lot of the institutions in many countries. It's not only Haiti that suffers from this corrosive effect, but it is something that we have to deal with. And I know that Haiti has in the past arrested individuals that have engaged in corruption. So that is refreshing to see.

CMDR. ADAIR: And if I can add to that, also working with the Haitian Coast Guard, if aid from the United States is reestablished, there's certainly good consequences there. We were seeing good results with the Haitian Coast Guard, with their training and how they responded to the training and how they carried out their law enforcement missions after that training. So there is no question in our mind at all that reestablishing the aid and then getting back to work with the government of Haiti and the Haitian Coast Guard will do nothing but benefit all concerned.

MR. VIGIL: If I can I would also like to answer that. One of the strategies that I would like to see in Haiti is getting all of the --

Q: This is -- (inaudible) -- from Radio Ibo (ph). We have been talking about drugs during the entire program. In spite of interdiction efforts, drugs still reach the market, so the problem of consumption is posed. So, Mr. Adair, I wonder do you have special strategies or plans in the United States to combat drug use? Thank you.

CMDR. ADAIR: Absolutely. The United States Coast Guard is more concerned with interdiction, so I would have to defer to Mr. Vigil, who is much better equipped to answer that question than I. Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: Yes, in order to answer your question, let me say this, that we do have strategies. And I touched on this earlier in terms of demand reduction, preventive treatment measures. When General McCaffrey was in charge of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, he undertook very significant measures in terms of educating the public in terms of the ills of drug abuse. And much money was spent in terms of these endeavors. And I think that we saw some reduction in terms of drug abuse. And again I think that education is very necessary -- education when children are at a very young age. I think it's absolutely critical. But we do have measures in place. And, as I mentioned earlier, it's not only enforcement but it's also reducing the demand and providing treatment facilities to those individuals that are addicted to drugs.

I wanted to add to the question that was asked earlier. I think that it's absolutely critical that the government of Haiti take a look at getting task forces together, if you will, of all the agencies in country that have counter-drug responsibility. I think that the Haitian National Police and the Coast Guard, which is under the Haitian National Police, as well as Customs, Immigration and other entities, work together in order to make a significant impact on the flow of drugs. It's not only in Haiti, but in other areas, and I think that all of the agencies have to work together and pool the resources that they have in order to allow for a more ample impact in that arena.

Q: (Off mike) -- I work for Radio Metropole, and my question is for Commander Adair. I would like to know why the four American officers were sent home last year. That was precisely at a time when the last DEA report said that 14 percent of Colombian narcotics went through Haiti. There were some protests about this number, and you are saying 11 percent now. Your four officers that were helping train our very resource poor Coast Guard have been sent home. Now, I wonder why these Coast Guard officers were sent back, or perhaps it was a political crisis. Thank you.

CMDR. ADAIR: The very short answer to the question was that it was in fact exactly the political crisis. The United States Congress restricted us from remaining in the country until such time that Haiti could resolve the question that the United States had regarding election practices. And that's the extent to which I can answer your question.

Q: Gregorie Pierre, spokesman for the Ministry of Justice and Public Security. This fight against drugs is not just for the police of Haiti, but also for the judicial authorities. So I wonder if we could consider having cooperation between American authorities and authorities in Haiti responsible for law enforcement, for determining sentences and other judicial matters. Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: I think that it's a very critical area, and I think that Haiti truly needs to look at passing adequate laws that would not only address the distribution and trafficking of drugs, but also deal with money laundering. I think that money laundering is a very critical issue. During the past several years we have seen a trend going through the Port-au-Prince international airport, where we see millions of U.S. dollars being transported by couriers, primarily into Panamanian banks and to a lesser degree to other offshore banks in the Caribbean. I think that if Haiti were to look at passing laws dealing with conspiracy, dealing with electronic eavesdropping in terms of strictly focused on drug traffickers, and then adequate money laundering laws, I think that it would go a long way in terms of curbing drug trafficking in that country.

But I agree with you -- I think that this is something that the U.S. government needs to work with Haiti in terms of passing legislation in these areas.

Q: Gary Pierre Peauchal (ph) from Telemax (ph). I must bring up another aspect, I am very sorry. But we have seen that the Haitian police have made efforts, but there is not just sea traffic, there is also air traffic. There in the northwest, in the south and even in Port-au-Prince there are landings, improvised landings. I wonder what you have done as a powerful country to help Haiti control its airspace. We don't have any more wings.

MR. VIGIL: The big problem is that we have a lot of resources in the Caribbean, not only Coast Guard but Customs and other agencies. And we do in fact track a lot of single- and twin-engine aircraft into Haiti. The problem being is that a lot of these areas where the aircraft land, they don't necessarily land at improved runways -- they land on open fields, they land on dirt roads. And it's very difficult to get a response into those areas. This is a situation that is compounded by the fact that these aircraft land and they are able to offload the drugs and refuel within four to eight minutes, which makes it very, very difficult.

One of the things that I've been attempting to do in working with other agencies within the U.S. government is to develop a response capability for the Caribbean. I would look at using helicopters, Blackhawk helicopters, that would be centrally located, and then we would look at establishing forward-operating bases and move those resources according to the dynamics or the changing drug trafficking trends and patterns. I think it's absolutely critical that we do this. Haiti does suffer from this, but the most critical threat to Haiti at this point in time is the movement of drugs by go-fast boats. So that's another issue.

Q: (Off mike). My question is for any of the panelists. I would like to know in the perspective of cooperation between Haiti and the United States in fighting drug trafficking are you considering on the United States extradition agreements for drug traffickers between the two countries? Because we know there are more and more drug traffickers within Haiti. Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: I would look at hopefully in the future establishing agreements with the Haitian government in terms of extradition. At the present time we have no extradition treaty with Haiti. I mentioned earlier that Haiti was in fact expelling third-country nationals. Recently they expelled Daniel LaValle (ph), who was arrested in one of the multinational operations, to the United States. He was wanted on drug trafficking charges in the Southern District of Florida.

Another issue is that once Haiti passed an adequate asset seizure law, I would look at establishing mutual legal assistance treaties and assets sharing agreements where when we conduct bilateral investigations and we seize assets in the United States that we would be able to share those resources with the government of Haiti in order to be able to expand and continue the development of the police infrastructure.

Q: My name is -- (inaudible) -- I work for Radio Metropole. My question is for Mr. Vigil and also to Commander Adair. What are the possibilities of cooperation between Haiti and the United States right now? What do we see on the horizon? You mentioned the improvised landings in Haiti as being a problem, a key problem and serious problem that must be resolved. So what measures do you think you will be taking in terms of cooperation in drug enforcement? You don't have any more Coast Guard trainers. You also mentioned the reduced resources of the BLTS. There is a lack of communications, resources, radio, telephone, automobiles. There is a lack of appropriate resources. So what is on the horizon in terms of cooperation between Haiti and the United States in order to further reducing drug trafficking? Thank you.

MR. VIGIL: Well, this is a two-way street. I think that we need to look at providing continued assistance to Haiti to ensure that the drug trafficking community does not expand. Many years ago we had two agents assigned to the Port-au-Prince DEA office. At the present time we have a total of eight agents. But I think that again being a two-way street I think it's imperative that Haiti also take a look at passing adequate laws. All the resources in the world are not going to have the necessary impact unless Haiti passes adequate laws to ensure that once these individuals are arrested that they are successfully prosecuted, and there are laws that would permit that successful prosecution. So it's a two-way street, and I think that the United States is willing and should continue to cooperate with Haiti.

MS. SICCARDI: Commander Adair, I am going to give you a chance to wrap up.

CMDR. ADAIR: All right, thank you very much. Future cooperation, the cooperation between the United States Coast Guard and the government of Haiti certainly does have a future. Just a little background, in 1997 the government of Haiti signed a bilateral maritime counter-drug agreement with the United States, and it was ratified by the Haitian parliament. However, that agreement has not yet entered into force, and there's something about the agreement having to be entered into, the Haitian equivalent of the federal register or the federal law books. Once that occurs and the government of Haiti can initiate the exchange of diplomatic communication between them and the United States government, then that arrangement or agreement can be entered into force, and the Coast Guard would immediately re-engage with the Haitian Coast Guard to begin improving our drug-interdiction partnership.

MS. SICCARDI: Well, gentlemen, I am afraid that with that we have come to the end of our discussion today. We want to express our appreciation for our guests for being here, Commander Adair and Mr. Vigil. I look forward to another opportunity where we can continue this discussion and exchange of points of view. I also appreciate participation in the questions from all of you in Port-au-Prince in Haiti. Thank you very much to all our listening audiences. For the American Embassy Television Network from Washington, Maria Siccardi wishing you a very good afternoon.

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