Transcript: State's Chamberlin at Drug Conference in Tashkent Oct. 20

30 October 2000

Transcript: State's Chamberlin at Drug Conference in Tashkent Oct. 20

OSCE-UN meeting on regional approach to drug crime and terrorism

At a press round table in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, October 20, the State Department's Wendy J. Chamberlin talked with journalists about the just-concluded international conference on "Enhancing Security and Stability in Central Asia: An Integrated Approach to Counter Drugs, Organized Crime and Terrorism."

The October 19-20 conference was sponsored by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and the United Nations Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention (ODCCP).

Ambassador Chamberlin, the principal deputy assistant secretary of the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs, said there was a general consensus about both the problem and the solution. The "enormous increase" in the production of opium in Afghanistan over the last few years is a destabilizing factor in Central Asia, she said, undermining good governance, contributing to corruption, and straining the region's law enforcement institutions. She added that, according to the consensus view, the profits from narcotics help sustain terrorist groups that threaten legitimate governments and regional stability.

Since the root of the problem of narco-trafficking and terrorism in Central Asia is "poor economic stability and lack of opportunity for the local populations," Chamberlin said, economic development is a "requirement" but must be accompanied by good law enforcement.

Asked about the possibility of economic aid to Afghanistan, Chamberlin replied that not only have the Taleban made no effort to stop poppy cultivation but the area devoted to it has more than tripled in the parts of the country under their control. "In fact, there is evidence that they profit from both cultivation and trafficking by charging a tax."

Although the economic situation must be addressed for any long-term solution to the narcotics production in Afghanistan, this will only work if the government has the political will to develop its law enforcement and criminal justice institutions that must go "hand in hand" with economic development, Chamberlin said.

Following is a transcript of the press round table:

(begin transcript)

Intercontinental Hotel
Tashkent, Uzbekistan
October 20, 2000, 2:00pm

PRESS ROUND TABLE WITH AMBASSADOR WENDY J. CHAMBERLIN, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU OF INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AFFAIRS (INL)

AMBASSADOR CHAMBERLIN: I thought I would begin by providing you with a few observations on the international conference on "Enhancing Security and Stability in Central Asia: An Integrated Approach to Counter Drugs, Organized Crime and Terrorism." The sessions have covered a wide number of issues of great interest to us. Participants also came from a number of regions including Europe, Central Asia, the United States, the Arab states and even Southeast Asia as Thailand was represented. There were also a host of international organizations.

I was most pleased to see the participation of NGOs [nongovernmental organizations], and the reason we were so pleased to see NGOs participating in this conference was because we believe that they are an important part of any solution. My assessment is that there was a general consensus about the problem. First, there was a real concern about the enormous increase in the production of opium in Afghanistan over the last few years. Secondly, the consequent drug trafficking through Central Asia is a destabilizing factor. It undermines good governance. It contributes to corruption, and it absorbs the fragile law enforcement institutions in Central Asia. Third, the profits from the narcotics industry sustain terrorist groups, which, in turn, further threaten legitimate governments in Central Asia and their stability. Fourth, all of us, not just Central Asian countries, have a major stake in stability, and therefore a major stake in resolving these problems created by narco-trafficking. And fifth and finally, the root of the problem of narco-trafficking and terrorism in Central Asia is poor economic stability and lack of opportunity for the local populations.

These are the problems -- what are some of the solutions suggested and did the Conference produce a general consensus about the solutions? I think so. First, economic development is a requirement. Transparent government, access for all citizens to the means of (improving) quality of life -- are a part of this important solution. But economic development/alternative development to narcotics cultivation isn't the only solution. It has to be accompanied by good law enforcement. And the fundamental element that must exist in order for any of these nations to develop good law enforcement is the political will of their governments to take the necessary steps to develop the capacities of their law enforcement agencies, and to develop the capacities of their criminal justice system, and then to implement them. So economic development and the development of good law enforcement, good government institutions, good criminal justice institutions, do go hand in hand.

I'll be happy to take some of your questions.

NEW YORK TIMES: If you look at these governments, the five governments throughout Central Asia, and you try to evaluate their political will to develop, say good law enforcement -- can you comment on the status of the five countries perhaps a little bit more?

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: First, acknowledging that there are wide differences among the different countries, I would like to say that we have experienced very good cooperation with the host of this conference, Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan took the initiative to suggest, over a year ago, that the Six Plus Two political process turn to counter narcotics, as well. And we believe that the Six Plus Two process, which I can explain in greater detail in a minute, has some promise for improving the capacities of all the neighboring countries of Afghanistan. The "Two" in the Six Plus Two is the United States and Russia. The "Six" are China, which has a small border with Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Of the Six, only Turkmenistan has elected not to sign on to a Regional Action Plan that the eight countries of the Six Plus Two helped to formulate. So, I think that gets to the second part of your question ...

UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL: I actually have two questions for you. The first question: yesterday at the Conference, Mr. Arlacchi, expressed the opinion that the volume of narcotics being transported through the territory of Tajikistan, the northern parts of Tajikistan, has decreased. And, there are new routes for them to transport their drugs. Do you agree with this statement or not?

And the second question is: Uzbekistan has changed its policy and now is pursuing a new policy towards the Taleban. Last month the Minister of Foreign Affairs stated that Uzbekistan is ready to open its borders with Afghanistan under certain conditions. Would you comment on this?

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer your first question. In a general sense, what we have found, what our law enforcement in the United States has found, is that traffickers are always, constantly, almost weekly, sometimes daily, devising new ways, new routes, new methods of trafficking -- all as part of the evasion of effective law enforcement. Logically, if law enforcement and border control enforcement were tightening up along the Tajikistan border with Afghanistan, one would expect to see diversion of the trafficking routes. The United States has not yet observed any dramatic enhancement along the Tajik-Afghan border. It's a huge border. The needs are great, and we certainly want to work with the Tajikistan government, in order to help them strengthen their law enforcement. In fact the one small part of the United States Government's budget that I deal with -- we have made a commitment to contribute $500,000 dollars to strengthen Tajikistan's law enforcement over this next year. We've not yet decided how or to which institution that will go to, but we will do so shortly.

Once again we have been impressed by the political will of the Uzbek government to fight narcotics smuggling and other types of smuggling. We contribute as well to developing Uzbek border control and law enforcement. But Uzbek foreign policy is a sovereign matter for the Uzbek government. And we are confident that any policy steps that the Uzbek government takes will be consistent with their concerns to stop narcotic, terrorist and other kinds of smuggling across their borders.

INTER-FAX: Yesterday at the conference and today as well, there has been talk about a new attitude towards the Taleban in Afghanistan. There were arguments that the people in Afghanistan have to grow drugs because they have nothing else to live on. There were calls to render economic aid to this country. But everybody knows well that the Taleban, whose position on terrorism and extremism we all know, controls the majority of the country. Wouldn't the stimulation of the economy of Afghanistan be a kind of support of the Taleban movement?

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: Let me be quite frank with you. The first question that we were asked was to rank the attitudes of the governments. If the question had included the Taleban, which, in fact, is not a government, we clearly would rank their political will and commitment to law enforcement and commitment to stopping narcotics cultivation and trafficking very, very low.

Taleban leaders have made statements in the past that they were opposed to narcotics cultivation and narcotics trade. But the facts belie this. Prior to the creation of Taleban in 1994, opium cultivation in the areas that the Taleban have under their control was at a steady 20,000 hectares. When the Taleban captured Kandahar, poppy cultivation in that area immediately doubled. With Taleban military campaigns in 1998 and 1999, poppy cultivation again shot up to over 51,000 hectares. Today in the year 2000 we estimate they have again hugely increased to 64,000 hectares. These are U.S. government figures, but let me point out that our friends and allies and others who collect information on areas under the Taleban think we are very conservative. So I must allow that even these figures may be an understatement.

So what these data show is that there is no effort on the side of the Taleban to stop the cultivation or to keep it in check. In fact, there is evidence that they profit from both cultivation and trafficking by charging a tax. OK, now I am coming to your question (laughter).

In order to have economic development, alternative development work to narcotics production -- in order for that to be successful, you have to have a regime that is not encouraging poppy cultivation at the same time. In order to have alternative development work to discourage poppy cultivation you have to have at the same time strong law enforcement. And we do not see this at all in Afghanistan.

But in conclusion, I fully believe that the economic situation must be addressed for any long-term solution to narcotics production in Afghanistan or anywhere else where narcotics are produced.

You know the United States gives enormous amounts of money for very successful alternative development projects in a number of countries in the world. And there have been some stunning successes. Thailand comes to mind where opium production is practically zero; it is negligible today. And those very successful alternative development projects in Thailand didn't really begin to work until the King of Thailand began to work with them very closely on his own agricultural projects. We had been funding for years alternative development in Bolivia and Peru with tepid success. And a few years ago both governments, and particularly Bolivia, really got behind the program of eradication coupled with alternative development and the reduction in cocaine production in those two countries has been stunning.

So I think the answer is economic development and alternative development, but at the same time law enforcement. And neither halves of these two solutions will work without the political will of the government.

THE ECONOMIST: I have two questions. You put so much stress on the political will of the Uzbek government. Given the system as it is today, don't you see a danger that they might actually overdo this process? As we know from the human rights report, people had drugs planted on them and were arrested on those charges. How much of a problem do you think that would be?

Secondly regarding the data. Yesterday Mr. Arlacchi also gave us some figures, however, in hectares but I can't quite compare it to acres, but he did say that actually the cultivation was down by 10% and you were saying that it increased.

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: What, in Afghanistan?

THE ECONOMIST: Yes, in Afghanistan and I am wondering whether there are any discrepancies in the figures.

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: Well, I'll stick to the U.S. numbers. With regard to your first question, you are quite right. The needs of law enforcement and the threats that at times terrorism can present to a government must also (lead it) to take into account the important needs to protect the society, and human rights within that society as well.

So I will state that the fight against extremism, the fight against narco-trafficking, and the fight against organized crime can also be waged without abusing the human rights and the freedom of citizens. This was an important part of Secretary Albright's message to the Uzbek government when she visited here last April. It continues to be the cornerstone of our policies everywhere.

UPI: The Austrian Minister [Benita Ferrero-Waldner, OSCE chairwoman, Austrian Foreign Minister] said that Austria would render Uzbekistan additional aid. As a result of this conference, will the United States render additional aid to Uzbekistan? And the second question. Have any of the representatives from the Central Asian states given you some crazy ideas about combating narco-trafficking and what is your attitude towards them? For example, a Russian governor proposed introducing life imprisonment. Has anything like this been suggested here at the conference?

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: Yes -- to answer your first question -- the United States Government's assistance to Uzbekistan in counter-narcotics and law enforcement will continue. And we look for ways of increasing it in coming years. Norma Reyes, who works in our office, can give you precise statistics on assistance to Uzbekistan.

MS. REYES: This fiscal year we are funding 14 programs for Uzbekistan in law enforcement and narcotics. We will also be buying equipment. Last year we bought nine Jeeps for the Customs Service in Uzbekistan. They were delivered in August of this year. We also have funded some projects on prosecutor training not just for police officers but also for judicial assistance. And we also have some projects against the trafficking of women and children. You may have noticed down in the (hotel) lobby today that there was an announcement for training that was to be conducted in the Crystal Room. This was a course that the State Department sponsored. FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] agents were teaching prosecutors and the police of Uzbekistan techniques to investigate organized crime.

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: To answer the second part of your question, you should note that I am not a law enforcement official by career path. I am a diplomat. So I am not going to comment on the internal workings of a government's decision on how it sentences its criminals.

UPI: Could you specify how much more the United States will allocate to Uzbekistan?

MS. REYES: I would say that it is at least a million dollars a year.

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: But that's just in the INL [International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs] budget. In addition we are providing three million dollars for border control.

UPI: Annually?

MS. REYES: During this coming year only. It is a project linking the Central Asian countries -- a communications link -- and each country that participates will receive three million dollars in equipment and support. And that is not just for law enforcement, counter-narcotics and organized crime, but covers a broad spectrum of uses. It basically aims at border control and all of the issues that this involves.

BBC: There have been frequent calls over the last few months, certainly, by the region's leaders asking the international community to not just acknowledge but also take actions on the problems in the region. Do you think that is a fair criticism, and if so why has the international community been so slow to tangibly react?

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: I am not going to speak for the international community. I think some of the comments made today -- or rather the committed, positive comments made today by the EU representative -- indicate that there is a growing concern and willingness to commit to this area.

But I will speak for the United States. You can see from some of the statistics that Norma has just given you that we are stepping up our bilateral assistance, not only to Uzbekistan, but these are paralleled in other states in the area as well. As a multilateral initiative we are now deeply involved in the "6+2" process. And I will provide you a status report on where that stands.

Our experts in May developed an action plan for strengthening law enforcement and criminal justice systems among the Six. In September our ministers approved this Regional Action Plan (RAP), except for Turkmenistan. Now each of the Six are developing a needs assessment, and a report on what international assistance they are already receiving in these two areas. These reports are due November 1.

Iran nominated the United States to serve as coordinator for the Regional Action Plan. We take this responsibility seriously. What that means for us is that we will advocate in the international donor community funding of the programs that will emerge as part of this process.

UPI: Recently Le Monde and other newspapers had stories that Russia was aiding the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan based in Tajikistan to create tensions in Central Asia and to be able to influence the Uzbek government. Perhaps you have information that confirms the report's accuracy? Do you think such a thing is possible?

AMB. CHAMBERLIN: I am highly skeptical of that story. I am not Russian and I can't speak for the Russian Government. But I can tell you that I have just come from Moscow where I participated in talks on Central Asia with the Russian delegation. And we found the Russian government to be very concerned about narco-trafficking and the way profits from narco-trafficking support terrorist groups in this area.

But I am way beyond my brief. You'd better pose that question more appropriately to a Russian government official.

Thank you.

(end transcript)

(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)