U.S. Dept. of State - IIP: The United States and China

Transcript: Powell Stresses U.S. Wants Friendly Ties With China
(Complete July 28 interview on Chinese television)

The United States wants a friendly relationship with China, according to Secretary of State Colin Powell.

America's top diplomat added in a July 28 interview on CCTV, China's state television, that America doesn't need enemies, and isn't seeking to make any.

"We want a relationship that is a friendly relationship. The word I would convey to the Chinese people today is that we want friendship with the people of China," Powell said.

In the interview -- broadcast almost in its entirety throughout China -- Powell said the United States views China "as a very important nation that is going through a period of transformation. We want to help with that transformation."

China and the United States have "very, very important common interests," Powell said, including economic and trade interests.

Despite these common interests, he went on, "there will be areas where there will be disagreements and where we will say things that perhaps might not be well received in China, but it will always be in the context of trying to build a strong relationship with China and welcoming China into the international community -- a community of international economics, a community of international rule of law, a community of international standards of human rights."

Powell predicted that U.S.-China relations would be "based on friendship, on trust, on working together, on working through problems, on being candid with each other when we have disagreements, by encouraging the Chinese leadership to come into the world's international institutions and the world's standards with respect to human rights law more fully."

Relations between the Beijing regime and the Bush administration, Powell added, are "moving forward in a positive direction."

When asked by the interviewer what the Bush administration's position was concerning Taiwan, Powell replied that "we believe the Taiwan Relations Act and the three communiqu¡¦ that subsequently followed that act are the basis of our relationship with China and are a sound enough basis for us to move forward in a positive way." America is a peaceful nation, Powell said, "that wishes to be at peace with any other nation in the world that wishes to be at peace with us. And right now we have peaceful relations with China. And we want to do everything we can to build on this basis of friendship and peaceful relationship and work together."

Following is the complete transcript of Secretary of State Colin Powell's July 28 interview on CCTV:

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
(Beijing, China)
Immediate Release
July 30, 2001

INTERVIEW OF
SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN L. POWELL
BY CCTV
BEIJING, CHINA
JULY 28, 2001

QUESTION: We are now half a year into Bush's presidency and there have been some ups and downs and even some setbacks in Sino-US relations. Many Chinese people feel a little bit puzzled when they see a series of events that the US government seems to have taken a more confrontational approach toward China. So that is a very big question among millions of Chinese people. What exactly is in the mind of the US government towards, on our relationship or, so to say, what kind of relationship does the US wish to see?

SECRETARY POWELL: We want a relationship that is a friendly relationship. The word I would convey to the Chinese people today is that we want friendship with the people of China. And six months into our administration, as you noted, there had been a few ups and downs, but for the most part, I think we are now moving forward in a positive direction. My trip is an example of that, and President Bush is looking very much forward to visiting China later this fall. And I think what I would like to say to the Chinese people is that we view China as a very important nation that is going through a period of transformation. We want to help with that transformation.

We have very, very important common interests -- economic interests, trade interests. There will be areas where there will be disagreements and where we will say things that perhaps might not be well received in China, but it will always be in the context of trying to build a strong relationship with China and welcoming China into the international community -- a community of international economics, a community of international rule of law, a community of international standards of human rights.

And we have been very, very impressed how far China has come in recent years and we view China as a friend, not as an adversary. But I think when we have two mature countries like China and the United States with long histories and different political systems, there will be ups and downs. But it is important that we work through these ups and downs and always keep the relationship moving forward and upward.

QUESTION: And you're here mainly to prepare for President Bush's visit over here? About this trip, what can you tell us now?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, he is very much looking forward to the APEC Meeting in Shanghai, and then from there to Beijing, and I think he wants to form a personal relationship with President Jiang Zemin and the other leaders. President Bush very much believes in getting to meet other leaders and to talk to them face to face and convey that American attitude of friendship and the American attitude of "let's see if we can work together to solve any problems that exist between us. And let's always be doing what we can to improve the relationship between our two countries." So he's excited about coming to China. He's looking forward to it very, very much.

SECRETARY POWELL: He said to make sure that in my conversations with the Chinese leaders that I conveyed what I just said; Washington is not in a confrontational mode. Why would we want to be in a confrontational mode? We are one of the best trading partners that China has. Forty percent of your products come to the United States. American consumers depend to a large extent on products that come from China to help them go about their lives. The products that come at a reasonable cost. American businesses are investing in China. This is the basis for a positive relationship, a relationship that grows, not the basis for a confrontational relationship.

The areas that we will have some difficulty with, and the President will be candid about this, has to do with human rights, and we do have some concerns about proliferation issues. But this isn't the only basis of our relationship. These are the things we are talking our way through.

QUESTION: But it seems that here is a little confusion in terms of definitions of bilateral relations. For example, it seems to me that President Bush does not follow very much the idea of strategic partnership that was defined by our two governments a few years ago. While, at the same time, we notice that just on the eve of your visit you said that the United States is not trying to view China as an enemy. So, Mr. Powell, between "partner" and "enemy," if I may ask you, which word would you like to choose?

SECRETARY POWELL: Neither. Because the relationship between the United States and China is so complex, and it has so many pieces to it that it doesn't do it justice to try to capture it with a single word. It is a complex relationship. But it is a relationship that increasingly will be based on friendship, on trust, on working together, on working through problems, on being candid with each other when we have disagreements, by encouraging the Chinese leadership to come into the world's international institutions and the world's standards with respect to human rights law more fully. And some people have called it a partnership in the past. I've even occasionally called it strategic competitors, not in the sense that we're enemies, just that we have areas of disagreement and difference, where we compete on certain issues.

QUESTION: Yes, but to many Chinese, competitor has some kind of an indication of a rivalry or even confrontation, while at the same time many people believe that cooperation between two such countries is very, very fundamental and of great importance.

SECRETARY POWELL: Cooperation is a good word. When we cooperate to improve trade, that's good for both of us. When we cooperate to encourage regional stability in the area so people can trade without being worried about conflicts, when we cooperate on looking at some of the more difficult issues, like Taiwan and our one-China policy and we have a common understanding what we're talking about, then we can move forward in the spirit of friendship.

But we should make it clear here and now that from the American standpoint we don't need enemies; we're not looking for enemies; we don't want an enemy. America is a peaceful nation that wishes to be at peace with any other nation in the world that wishes to be at peace with us. And right now we have peaceful relations with China. And we want to do everything we can to build on this basis of friendship and peaceful relationship and work together.

QUESTION: Just as you mentioned, America is a nation for peace and American people love peace, I think that the situation is the same for the Chinese people.

QUESTION: And, just as the Chinese people are talking about China's bilateral relations, China-US relations, many people believe that China has been putting great importance to relations between our two countries. But there are some confusions or questions again, that people in China feel that why there are always some people in America who always disregard the progress that has taken place in China, in areas like economic development, like culture, and even, to some extent, human rights. These we understand, to some extent harm our bilateral relations. So people will say why can't we agree on some points, on something, while we disagree on the other things.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, in a democratic system such as ours, you will always have different points of view and in a political system such as ours, which is very, very diverse, you will always have different points of view. But there are some things we can agree on. And as I indicated earlier, we have seen it's obvious that China has transformed greatly in the last 20 years with respect to your economy, and you have been blessed with a great deal of success as a result of this transformation.

And we certainly take note that there has been change in the human rights situation in China as measured against international standards, and I know that the Chinese people should take great credit for that. But that does not mean that we should not point out there are areas where we believe that, in accordance with international standards, you should continue to move forward, continue to move forward with respect to the treatment of people with different religious beliefs, or different ways of practicing their faith -- and treatment in accordance with international standards. So we take note of all that has happened that is very, very positive.

But as your friend, and as someone who wants to see China play a more active role in the world -- I'm not trying to contain China -- we think it's important for us to point out where improvements are appropriate: rule of law, having standards with respect to international law, and trying to meet those standards that are expected in the international community with respect to freedom of, I have to say religion, and various human rights.

QUESTION: Personally, I think that maybe we need some more dialogue, while at the same time, the ordinary Chinese people will feel uncomfortable if America's always pointing the finger at China saying, you should do that and do that.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we don't want to point the finger at China and say you must do it our way. We think there are international standards that would benefit China to adhere to. We believe that China should do this not because we're pointing the finger at China, but because we think it's in the interest of the Chinese people and in the interest of China to work fully into the standards of the international community. We point fingers at ourselves.

America is a country that has had its problems over the years with respect to human rights. I'm a perfect example of it. As a black man 40 years ago, it would have been unthinkable for me to dream about becoming Secretary of State, but here I am. So we have changed because our people have decided that if we were going to be faithful to the values we believe in then it must apply to all Americans. And we think these are international standards - these are standards that follow a higher purpose and a higher order. And we think it will benefit the Chinese people -- not that we are trying to lecture to the Chinese people. And I hope that the Chinese people will see that our occasional pushes on these various issues are not for the purpose of being critical or punishing, but for the purpose of encouraging China to move in a way that we believe will benefit China and the Chinese people.

QUESTION: Well, I think that we do need some more dialogue. Maybe today's talk will help that long process.

SECRETARY POWELL: And with the discussions I'll be having with your leaders, we'll be talking about human rights and opportunities that we have to start up a dialogue again on human rights issues between the two sides.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, China wishes to establish a constructive relationship of cooperation with the United States, and we also attach a great deal of importance to the whole series of communiqu¡¦ that have been between the United States and China which have been signed since President Nixon first visited China in the early 70s. And, in 1998, the US government reiterated its position towards Taiwan with the so-called "three no's." So my question is, can you explicitly tell us, has that position been changed or not?

SECRETARY POWELL: The position of the United States government in the Bush administration is that, we believe the Taiwan Relations Act and the three communiqu¡¦ that subsequently followed that act are the basis of our relationship with China and are a sound enough basis for us to move forward in a positive way.

QUESTION: Moving to some global issues, we understand that some experts and analysts are saying that the American strategy on global issues tended to become a little more rigid on some issues like the Kyoto Protocol, like anti-ballistic missiles, NMD, and others. My question is, what is the American government looking upon today's world?

SECRETARY POWELL: We are looking on a world as increasingly interconnected economically, politically. We are not withdrawing behind our borders and we're not becoming unilateral, as some people have suggested. We remain active members of NATO, United Nations, and the World Trade Organization. We have active alliances, we are a nation that has a Pacific presence, a European presence, so we are not withdrawing and we are not moving in the direction of unilateralism. At the same time, when issues come along such as the Kyoto Protocol, where we do not believe our adherence to such protocol or ratification of such protocol would be in the best interest of the United States, or frankly in the best interest of the world because we don't think the Kyoto Protocol is the right solution to the problem of global warming, we think we should speak out and take a position, even if it looks like we are isolating ourselves.

If you believe in your position, you should state it, even though you will be criticized for going against what most other nations think. And that's one of the roles that were given to us by our political system. And because of who we are, when we make these kinds of judgments, we get a lot of attention because people say America is trying to be unilateral, but that's not the case. But where our interests diverge from the interests of others, I think it is important for us to say so and try to explain our views.

The same situation applies to missile defense. It's not just missile defense. We've taken a look at the world and we realize that the world we're living in, the cold war world is over and the large numbers of nuclear weapons that we all are pointing at each other, that large number is no longer necessary. So working with the Russians we want to reduce the number of strategic offensive weapons that exist in each of our inventories, and at the same time we have noticed that there are other dangers from the countries that, for reasons of their own, have started to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. And we think it is wise to develop defenses against such systems. And so that is why we are moving forward with missile defense, but it is constrained by this 30-year old treaty, the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty of 1972. So we are working with the Russians to get out of the constraints of this treaty so we can develop missile defenses that will be stabilizing and deal with these new threats.

QUESTION: But some people feel that by doing that the American, let's say the United States, is sort of dreaming, kind of a, you know, enemy which is maybe not so imminent. And, at the same time, doing away with the 1972 agreement will have very serious consequences in the global arms control situation.

SECRETARY POWELL: We don't think it will. We think the 1972 Treaty was designed for another time when we were trying to stop the growth of strategic offensive weapons, but that growth has already stopped. It's now going in the other direction, and as President Putin and President Bush discussed just a week ago in Genoa, it can go even lower -- the number of offensive weapons we have. But it's going lower not because of the existence of the ABM Treaty, but because they are not needed in those quantities any more. So the ABM Treaty was for another time, another set of political circumstances, which no longer exist now. And we shouldn't use this treaty as an obstacle to do something sensible with respect to missile defense. I think we will be able to persuade the Russian leadership and I hope the Chinese leadership, that our missile defense programs are no threat to their nuclear deterrent forces.

SECRETARY POWELL: I am confident the subject will come up in the course of my discussions.

QUESTION: So, Mr. Secretary, with me here, I have a small gift or a small secret, here. I'm not going to give it to you. That's your autobiography, My American Journey. It's in the Chinese version. I think it's a little bit too expensive for me. It's almost 30 Yuan, Chinese renminbi. In this book, I read what you wrote about your experience. It seems to me that what you are trying to say is that for a military person, for a soldier, war is not the utmost; peace is. So my question here is, for you, who have been in the military for more than 30 years and as a soldier, what is the relationship between war and peace - between a soldier and peace? Could you give me some very simple ideas?

SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know of any sane soldier who wants to see war, because soldiers know the consequences of war, the destruction that is brought about, the lives that are lost. So the philosophy of the American Army is be strong for the purpose of preserving the peace and avoiding war. If one has to fight a war because one has no choice, then do it quickly and get it over with, with minimum casualties in order not to cause more destruction than is necessary. Soldiers really look for peace. Now I look for peace, not wearing a uniform, but wearing a suit. But it is the same philosophy and I am trying to use everything I learned in the military about leadership, about management, and my experience as a soldier around the world, and my experience as a National Security Advisor, now using it to help me be Secretary of State looking for peace.

QUESTION: Has it helped to change some of your personal philosophy and the way you look on the world and life?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, I've always looked upon the world and life in the same way, looking for peace, looking for friends, looking for hope, trying to do everything I can as a person and everything my nation can do as a nation to help people who still hurt in this world -- people who don't have enough to eat, people who are suffering from disease, people who don't have a roof over their heads. America is one of the most generous nations on the face of the earth. America, and as I said earlier, needs no enemies. Why? Because we are strong. We need no enemies, we want no enemies, we want to help people. We want to help China and we want to help China take advantage of the new 21st Century world of information technology, access to international markets. Trade with us, let American products come here -- Chinese products come to the United States. Let's share each other's cultures and values, not for the sake of one overwhelming the other, but in an atmosphere of respect for each other.

We have an understanding of the importance of the rule of law, human rights. This is a bright future that is ahead of us, if people like me and your leaders and President Bush and all the other leaders are ready to take advantage of it, by cooperation and not by confrontation. So to come back to your original question, the answer is friendship, cooperation, coordination, getting along, finding areas where we have common interests and can move together, and where we have disagreements. Let's discuss those disagreements and make them areas of common interest.

QUESTION: In the later part of the book I read that you have assessed Colin Powell rules, that you have thirteen rules. I find it very interesting, rules number one and two. Rule number one says, "It ain't as bad as you think. It will look better in the morning." And number two, "Get mad and then get over it." It seems to me that this matches pretty well with bilateral relations between China and the United States. We get mad and then get over it. Do you agree with that?

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes. Things will come along from time to time that will cause problems. The problems exist to be overcome. So when something comes along like the reconnaissance airplane incident, it's not a pleasant incident, nor was the bombing at the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. Nobody wanted that to happen, nobody wanted the plane incident to happen. But both times it happened and it hurts. It hurt your side and it was very, very distressing for our side. But we can't allow incidents like this to contaminate our whole relationship. We have to face them fully, resolve them and then get them behind us so that we can get mad, get over it, and move on to the kind of relationship I've been discussing.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I found out that, in this book, you first came to China almost 30 years ago, in the early 70s. That's a long time ago. Now you have come here as Secretary of State. Do you think that you have a very good and complete picture of China? In the end, finally, eventually China has been developing so drastically and so many considerable changes during the past 20 or 30 years in China.

SECRETARY POWELL: There has been enormous change in the almost 30 years since I visited last. Well, I visited for the first time. I was also here in 1983. Even then one could start to see the changes, but nothing like what has happened between 1983 and 2001. I congratulate the Chinese people, Chinese leadership for the energy they have shown, for their willingness to take risks, for their willingness to move into a new world and leave behind some of the processes and some of the ways of doing business that didn't work and were not serving the Chinese people. And I just look forward to that transformation continuing as your leadership grapples with the challenges of the 21st Century. And you can be sure that the United States stands ready to cooperate and work with the Chinese leadership as we both move forward together.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much. It has been very nice to have you here.

(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)