TRANSCRIPT: ABC INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY OF STATE ALBRIGHT
(Self-expression, imagination best path to a stable China)Shanghai -- "The best way to achieve stability in China is to allow the people to express themselves and to be able to use their imaginations to make China a society that can participate in the 21st century," Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright said.
Secretary Albright was interviewed by Sam Donaldson of ABC News in Shanghai, China June 30. Albright spoke on the summit in China and the recent events in Kosovo.
"We will never have a totally normal relationship with the Chinese until human rights situation is worked out," Albright said, "but we have a multi-faceted relationship a changing relationship with changing China."
Albright also spoke on the issue of Kosovo. "Negotiations are going on right now; there has been no break in the diplomatic activities and we are going to pursue the diplomatic track while keeping all options open."
Following is the official State Department transcript of the interview:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of State
Office of the Spokesman
(Shanghai, China)FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 30, 1998
TRANSCRIPT FROM AN
INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY MADELEINE K. ALBRIGHT
WITH SAM DONALDSON OF ABC NEWS
Shanghai, China
June 30, 1998MR. DONALDSON: Secretary Albright, thanks very much for sitting down with us.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Glad to be with you, Sam.
MR. DONALDSON: Good to see you. There seems to be a new offensive under way in southern Kosovo; how serious is it?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I thought the situation in Kosovo was very dangerous. There's no question about that. We are involved in very intensive negotiations to try to resolve this situation diplomatically. Chris Hale, Ambassador Chris Hale, is there; he is in Pristina right now meeting with Dr. Rugova. And he has been in Belgrade dealing with Milosevic. And we believe that the best solution to this continuing, still believe and continue to believe, there's a diplomatic solution and that violence is not the way to the end of this.
MR. DONALDSON: President Milosevic has been warned a number times. In fact, NATO, as you know, had exercises just a few weeks ago to demonstrate it had the ability to do something if necessary, but he doesn't seem to be responding. Isn't it fair to say that he thinks NATO's bluffing?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that he shouldn't think that. I mean, as we have said, NATO planning is accelerating; we have been in touch with various allies on this. I think everybody feels that this is a very dangerous situation, but we think the intensive negotiations that are going by Americans, Ambassador Hale, Ambassador Holbrooke -- I just spoke with. I think what people don't understand is that the negotiations are going on right now; that there has been no break in the diplomatic activities and we are going to pursue the diplomatic track while keeping all options open.
MR. DONALDSON: But while you're pursuing diplomatic options, the fighting is continuing. People are dying.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that our best choice is to try to pursue them, while having accelerated NATO planning and making clear to Milosevic that we are, the NATO actions are in preparation. The bottom line here, Sam, is that the best way to deal with this issue is to defuse the flash points, which we are trying to do. There's an observer unit that is on it's way there; we have various mechanisms in place on that, and have ongoing negotiations on both sides. Dr. Rugova is, has a non-violent approach to this. We believe that his base should be broader and we are working on a diplomatic solution, but I have to keep repeating that all options remain on the table.
MR. DONALDSON: I was going to ask you if, at the end of the day, President Milosevic does not stop, what then?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I will repeat it the best way which is that NATO planning is being accelerated and we have not taken any option off the table, and I think President Milosevic knows that.
MR. DONALDSON: Let's talk about China. The President has come here to Shanghai from Beijing at a time that many people interpret as being a success for the United States. I take it you wouldn't quarrel with that?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: No, I think it's really - I know people shouldn't say this about a trip while it's in progress - but I do think it's an historic trip. And it is up there in terms of other historic events that have taken place. President Nixon's trip here and something too is obviously an historic opening to China. President Carter's normalization with China, 20 years ago now, was also an historic aspect. I think this is the third part of history being made and it is moving in terms of the 21st century. We are having a changing relationship with a changing China and President Clinton's trip here was very bold. There were people who thought he shouldn't come and there were people who thought he wouldn't say what he needed to say about human rights. Not only did he come, but he said in a press conference -- which I think was kind of more like a debate -- with President Jiang, he made very clear about the importance of universal human rights and universal values. He pressed that case. He then spoke with students who are the 21st century. He made that very clear. And he made very clear to the Chinese who are concerned about stability that the best way to achieve stability in China is to allow the people to express themselves and to be able to use their imagination to make China a society that can participate in the 21st century.
MR. DONALDSON: Now when President Clinton said to President Jiang Zemin of China that what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989 was wrong, that was being telecast and was heard on radio live throughout China, and the next day at Peking University, that was all live. Why do you think Jiang allowed this?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that he is trying to signal also that he wants to see a changed relationship. And that he -- and I've been around on these meetings with the two of them -- I think President Clinton has an uncanny ability to get other leaders to imagine the future with him and to really have visions about the kinds of relationships that can take place. I think we're going to see over the long run what the effects of this trip are going to be. And I think having the kind of discussion you mentioned and allowing that many people to see it is going to have a long term effect.
MR. DONALDSON: Jiang clearly did this knowing what he was doing. Certainly the next day, if he said, well, it's a mistake on Saturday, he would not have allowed it on Monday. He did. Could Jiang be moving deliberately toward a democracy in China?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: No, I think we -- look-I think that at this stage, this clearly in an authoritarian regime. I think Jiang is a very clever leader and I think he understands how it's beginning to engender various pressures within his society, and I think that he obviously did it deliberately. Otherwise, it wouldn't have happened. Where it's moving, who knows? But it clearly is opening up, and I think President Clinton has played a very important role in working to open a window for the Chinese people and also to have Americans understand Chinese better. And so I think that we'll have to see how that plays out.
MR. DONALDSON: On the other hand, some of President Clinton's critics are saying he didn't go far enough in talking about Tiananmen Square and he dropped it. He should have kept on.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, you know I have to say this, you probably expect it. But the critics are wrong and they will see that eventually. I don't think ever in history has one president of the country stood by the side of another president of a country and said in front of all his people - an action that was taken by previous leaders or by some that are still part of the system - "you did something wrong." I think that is the boldest stroke that any American President has done in a long time. And I don't-
MR. DONALDSON: Then why did he drop it?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: He hasn't dropped it. He talked about, you know, he had this speech at Peking University which was also historic in terms having, dealing with, I think, some pretty good questions, your kind of questions, Sam.
MR. DONALDSON: Well, I didn't plant any, Secretary Albright---
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: But I think that they were very good questions which he, in a very typical President Clinton way, took the question, understood what it was, kind of putting himself into the shoes of the person who was asking the question, and then turning it to show where American values, and Western or universal values were concerned. Today he had a roundtable in which again, various -- I think you need to understand human rights as a much broader concept than most people think of, that it involves the ability to have access to information. He was sitting under the sign in the Shanghai Library that said "Knowledge is Power." And I think that having discussions where people are able to think about the future -- he talked about it with the Bishop of Shanghai - he talks about it all the time, so I don't think he has dropped it. But we have a very broad agenda and that agenda has been fulfilled across the board in terms of dealing on issues of non-proliferation. The de-targeting agreement I think is an important one. He also has engaged the Chinese in a strategic discussion about what is going on in this region. We have very important dealings with the Chinese on keeping peace in Korea and their role in the four-party talks. We also had a very important discussion with them about nuclear explosions in India and Pakistan. So there's a broad agenda. We will never have a totally normal relationship with the Chinese until the human rights situation is worked out, but we have a multi-faceted relationship as I keep saying - a changing relationship with a changing China.
MR. DONALDSON: Thank you very much, Secretary Albright.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Thank you very much, Sam.
MR. DONALDSON: Nice to see you again.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Thanks.
(end transcript)
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