Transcript: Assistant Secretary Taft Worldnet on East Timor
(U.S. helping with repatriation effort in East Timor)The United States has been participating in the INTERFET peacekeeping coalition in East Timor under the leadership of Australia and will continue to participate under the new U.N. arrangement, according to Julia Taft, assistant secretary of state for population, refugees and migrant affairs.
During a Worldnet interactive program with audiences in Canberra, Wellington and Manila October 27, Taft said: "We are also seeking funds right now in our Congress to be able to help support that peacekeeping operation. I think what our position is that we are going to reinforce and do whatever we can from both a political and a developmental standpoint the initiatives that the East Timor people want to have, and we are working very closely with the U.N. on trying to identify ways we can support their Transitional Administration."
The people of East Timor need assistance on several levels, Taft said. "The most important need is security, and INTERFET, with the leadership of Australia now, is doing a remarkably wonderful job. Much of the eastern part of East Timor is totally secure and every day there are additional areas which are becoming much more secure."
Secondly, she said, they need shelter. "There is a huge reconstruction requirement that is facing these people," Taft said. Most of the buildings in the capital city of Dili, as well as most of the outlying towns and villages, have been looted and burned, she said. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees is responsible for coordinating that sector, she said.
Food is also problem, Taft said. "The United States government is going to be working with the World Food Program, and our commitment is to provide at least one third of the food that will be necessary," she said.
The United States, Taft said, has been contributing heavily to East Timorese repatriation efforts as well as to some of the non-governmental organization (NGO) projects in the area.
"These people who voted for independence want to come back and they want to start rebuilding their country. And we feel it's very important to accelerate the movement of people out of West Timor. For this reason we have been funding UNHCR and the IOM so that they can get the convoys, they can get the planes and they can get the ferries moving. It's my understanding about 20,000 people have already gone back just within the past 10 days and this is going to pick up. So we want to get people repatriated, and this is a major part of our contribution."
Following a transcript of the program:
(begin transcript)
WORLDNET "DIALOGUE"
U.S. Department of State
Television and Film ServiceGUEST: Julia Taft, U.S. Assistant Secretary for Population, Refugees and Migrant Affairs, U.S. State Department
TOPIC:Humanitarian Assistance to East Timor
POSTS: Canberra, Wellington, Manila
HOST: Judlyn Lilly
DATE: October 27, 1999
MS. LILLY: Hello, I'm Judlyn Lilly, and welcome to Worldnet's "Dialogue."
The humanitarian crisis in East Timor emerged from widespread destruction caused by militia groups favoring integration with Indonesia following the August 30th popular consultation on independence. The United Nations is appealing to member countries for about $180 million in preliminary humanitarian assistance.
Later this week a delegation from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund are scheduled to arrive in Dili, East Timor's capital, to begin discussions with U.N. officials and local leaders about financial assistance aimed at longer-term reconstruction.
On this edition of "Dialogue" we will discuss humanitarian assistance for East Timor. We are honored to have as our guest Julia Taft, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Population, Refugees and Migrant Affairs. Assistant Secretary Taft, welcome to Worldnet's "Dialogue."
MS. TAFT: Thank you very much.
MS. LILLY: Before we begin, have you a statement to share with our participants?
MS. TAFT: I think I have a few observations I'd like to share; and they stem from the fact that in the last 10 months we have seen an enormous amount of history contracted in just a very short time frame. It was just last January that the president of Indonesia, Habibie, had decided to have this public consultation in August, and have the people of East Timor decide whether or not they wanted to be part of Indonesia or wanted independence.
Shortly thereafter, the U.N. started organizing the election process, and as you pointed out the election was held on August the 30th. Overwhelmingly the people of East Timor selected independence, and it was after that that the militia and the people who opposed the will of the electorate started the expulsion of people and the destruction. So we had that starting in September -- huge outflows of people. About 250,000 went into West Timor, and about 200,000 went into the hills of East Timor and left the villages. So we had that.
Then there was a decision to authorize INTERFET, which is led by the Australians, to go in as a peacekeeping force. They went in. Then we had remarkably a return of people starting to come out. Then we had the decision by the assembly in Indonesia to grant the independence. So we have a whole new country. And after that vote the U.N. established the new Transitional Authority.
So we are seeing in very compressed time a huge political drama and a humanitarian drama, and I think we are all waiting now to see what the next phase is going to be.
MS. LILLY: Well, thank you very much. Our participants are standing by in Canberra, Wellington, and Manila. I know they are anxious to begin the discussion. So without further delay, we will now go to Catherine McGrath of ABC News in Canberra for your opening question or comment.
Q: Assistant Secretary Taft, good morning. The first question I have for you is it's been very unclear in Australia what the numbers of East Timorese are that are in other areas of Indonesia. We know that a large number have been in West Timor, and there have been many reports about some being transmigrated to other parts. What information has the U.S. government received about that, and what are your concerns about that issue?
MS. TAFT: During the period where the major exodus was occurring in East Timor, it is our understanding that about 40- to 50,000 people went to other parts of Indonesia on their own. They weren't forcibly sent, but as you know East Timor had a number of professionals from different parts of Indonesia that were working in the economy and in the government. They evacuated and they went to other parts of Indonesia. We are thinking about 250,000 went into West Timor, and of those maybe half of them would like to come back. So the exodus is probably about, if you add about 50,000 that went to other parts of Indonesia and those who went to West Timor, maybe about 300,000 people.
Now, of those that went to other parts of Indonesia, the International Organization for Migration has begun returning those who decided they would like to go back to East Timor, and several thousand have already been brought back on organized flights, and there are more people who are still opting to come. So I think we are going to see some of those people returning that went to other parts of Indonesia.
MS. LILLY: Thank you. Thank you in Canberra. Our participants are standing by in Wellington. Kathy Bell of the Dominion Newspaper, please go ahead with your first question or comment.
Q: Good afternoon. Wouldn't the change in mission status from a coalition of the willing to a United Nations-run operation have an impact on the United States' response to the situation in East Timor?
MS. TAFT: I think that our response right now has been one of participating with the coalition under the leadership of Australia. We will continue to participate under the new U.N. arrangement. We are also seeking funds right now in our Congress to be able to help support that peacekeeping operation. I think what our position is that we are going to reinforce and do whatever we can from both a political and a developmental standpoint the initiatives that the East Timor people want to have, and we are working very closely with the U.N. on trying to identify ways we can support their Transitional Administration.
MS. LILLY: Thank you, Kathy Bell, in Wellington. We now return to Canberra and Catherine McGrath for more questions.
Q: Assistant Secretary, may I just follow up from that earlier question? I was interested in your feeling that 40,- to 50,000 went to other areas of Indonesia and that they possibly were not forced. Is that the U.S. information? Because there were certainly early reports that there was some type of transmigration going on. What is your understanding of that situation?
MS. TAFT: Well, I think there probably people who were herded upon ferry boats that we heard about. To my understanding most of those did go into West Timor and not to Bali and other places. But what we are trying to -- what we have assessed is what the CNRT has claimed have been people who were stranded or were sent to other parts of Indonesia, and those are primarily the people who have identified themselves for the return flights that are being sponsored by IOM.
But you know there were so many people who have lived in East Timor that are not basically East Timorese that many of them, it is our understanding, wanted to get out when they saw that it was being quite difficult to get a sense of security in East Timor. There were flights, there were regular ships, and we don't think there were forced expulsions.
When you talk about transmigration, as you know, Indonesia has a very specific program of transmigration where they plan ahead of time where they are going to send people and arrange for a house or a community for them to go to in a very specific way. I don't think there was any organized transmigration plans. I think it was mostly the chaos of people trying to escape, and some of them were able to self-escape and others were put on these ferries and these other boats and driven mostly into West Timor.
Q: (Off mike) -- new president and a new cabinet. What is the U.S. feeling about Abdurrahman Wahid and the possible changes that that may lead to on the ground?
MS. TAFT: Well, President Clinton has already called President Wahid to express his support and encouragement. I think as you look at his broad-based cabinet, it's quite interesting -- he's covering many different interest groups and it's a good cabinet selection. We're particularly interested and supportive in the Ministry of Defense. For the first time there will be a civilian head of the Ministry of Defense, and we think that this bodes quite well for the cabinet at large, and also for the government. So we are encouraging. We want to work with the government. This too has been a dramatic first democratic election there, so it goes in the roster of all the other incredible things that have happened in Indonesia in the last 10 months, and we want to work with the government.
Q: And Assistant Secretary, General Wiranto is still very much a part of the new cabinet. What is the U.S. feeling about the impact he will have?
MS. TAFT: I think it's not clear right now exactly what his portfolio will include, and so we are waiting to see how that evolves. I must say from the humanitarian standpoint we have pressed very hard while Wiranto was the minister of defense to have him ensure that the TNI reined in the militia in East Timor as well as West Timor. We feel very strongly that it was the responsibility of the government and the TNI to ensure security in these places. And recently, while he was still minister of defense, he did agree to assign a senior officer to West Timor in response to our urgent concern that the militia be reined in and that the humanitarian community get access to the various camps and locations. He was responsive. He sent in a battalion to be supportive, and a senior official there. So I think they are moving in the right direction.
Q: Can you tell me -- there have been varied reports about the amount of pressure the U.S. put on Indonesia in the days after the result was announced before the INTERFET troops went in. We have heard reports that William Cohen personally put a lot of pressure, that there were possible threats to withdraw IMF, World Bank funding. Can you clarify for us what the U.S. said to Indonesia during those very difficult days and weeks?
MS. TAFT: Let me just say that with regard to the IMF that was a decision the IMF made. There have been many conversations after the election with senior representation at the foreign minister level as well as the secretary of defense level. Secretary Cohen did go to Indonesia and talked quite frankly with both Habibie and with Wiranto about our expectations of what the military should do. Indonesia is a very important country and has a very strong military and there are certain requirements that militaries have in terms of providing security for civilians. And these points were made by Cohen in a very supportive way. And I think the result has been that Indonesia has understood that we want to maintain solid and good relationships with the country, but we also expect them as a member of the international community to maintain certain standards of international conduct and behavior for their own people. And so I think a combination -- very strong and high level demarches were quite effective.
Q: And can you tell me, was it made clear to the Indonesian government at that time that there would be implications if they didn't alter the way they had been responding?
MS. TAFT: Well, the implication of your question is that the U.S was a lone ranger in this, and I think that the whole international community and many of the neighboring countries, including Australia, were expressing a real earnest desire on the part of Indonesia that they needed to act in a responsible way.
And when I went there, which was two days after INTERFET landed, when we met with the government officials, we were -- I was with the United States, representing the United States, of course, and we had senior representation from the U.K., and Sweden and Japan and Thailand on our humanitarian mission. All of us were in great solidarity to say we are here to urge you to do the right thing on the humanitarian side, and to be as responsive to the needs of these people as possible. And we got very good results. That wasn't just the U.S. speaking -- it was just a sentiment that many, many responsible governments were calling for and urging the Indonesians to respond too.
MS. LILLY: Thank you, Canberra. Now let's return to Wellington and Kathy Bell. Go ahead please.
Q: I'd like to talk more specifically about the humanitarian aid for people of East Timor. What help is the United States looking at providing for the people of East Timor, and what special needs do those people have now?
MS. TAFT: Well, of course the most important need is security, and INTERFET, with the leadership of Australia now, is doing a remarkably wonderful job. Much of the eastern part of East Timor is totally secure and every day there are additional areas which are becoming much more secure. It is my understanding also that INTERFET has started going into Ambino, which was an area, the enclave area which we are very concerned about. So security is the number one issue.
Secondly, shelter. Just going through the streets of Dili and seeing all of these burned-out houses and buildings totally looted, there is a huge reconstruction requirement that is facing these people -- and that was only Dili. Since then, through helicopters and land assessment teams, they found many, many other towns and villages are equally destroyed. So shelter will be a very large issue, and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees is responsible for coordinating that sector.
Food also. You know, it's going to be raining there pretty soon. Planting season is going to start, and there will be requirements for external food aid. The United States government is going to be working with the World Food Program, and our commitment is to provide at least one third of the food that will be necessary.
WFP already has the food identified, and it's in the pipeline and being delivered. So we are very pleased about that.
Also, the other things the United States has been contributing to has been to some of the NGO projects that are going forward, and also heavily to the repatriation. You know, these people who voted for independence want to come back and they want to start rebuilding their country. And we feel it's very important to accelerate the movement of people out of West Timor. For this reason we have been funding UNHCR and the IOM so that they can get the convoys, they can get the planes and they can get the ferries moving. It's my understanding about 20,000 people have already gone back just within the past 10 days and this is going to pick up. So we want to get people repatriated, and this is a major part of our contribution.
Q: That's I guess very much first-stage humanitarian aid. These things go I guess through processes. How long do you think it's going to be before you move on to the next stage of helping them rebuild?
MS. TAFT: There should be a continuum of course between the relief and the rehabilitation. And what we have seen now in the $180 million request that the U.N. has prepared, most of it is, as you point out, shorter-term assistance. How are we going to get through the next many months?
What we are looking forward to though is the U.N. Transitional Administration, when it gets up and running -- it was just authorized last week -- they will be going down there to make full assessments on what is really needed structurally in terms of starting ministries and making sure that schools get started, and working on the hospitals and the government infrastructure. The man who is leading this is Sergio de Mello, who has been a U.N. senior executive for quite some time. He knows how to do this. We are very pleased about that. And we will be working to identify ways that the U.S. government can help fund the civil administration that is going to go in there. This administration is the civilian part; of course there will be a U.N. peacekeeping part. We expect that the peacekeepers will keep the peace and that the administrators will start doing the rebuilding that you are talking about. And that should be launched within a matter of weeks.
Q: What are the United States government estimates on how much it will cost to rebuild East Timor? Do you consider that it can be a viable state in the future, both economically and politically? And, if so, how long is it likely to take before it is sort of a viable independent nation?
MS. TAFT: Well, the U.N. assessment is that it would take two to three years to get the full infrastructure, the government infrastructure in place so that the East Timorese people will actually be managing their own affairs. So that's not very long in terms of starting from scratch. I mean, they are basically building a new country. Our sense is that it will be viable. There are many countries in the world that have fewer than the 800,000 people that East Timor has. What our challenge is is to make sure that the government that does emerge is broad-based enough and involves enough of the priorities and the people of East Timor in designing their new government. And this is going to be a challenge that Mr. de Mello in the U.N. and others will have in terms of reaching out and making sure that all the sectors of the society feel that they have a stake in a future government.
Q: What direction does the United States think East Timor should aim at in the future? Should it concentrate on foreign exchange earnings from agriculture, being a tax haven, or (price and gambling dens ?)? And where should it concentrate on its links -- Asia, Europe or the Pacific?
MS. TAFT: Well, you come from the region. I think one of the things I found quite humbling when I was out there is how little some Westerners know about the culture, the environment, the geography of that part of the world. I will leave it up to others, particularly to East Timorese, to determine for themselves.
You know, there has been over the years a number of development initiatives for East Timor in terms of coffee production and other natural resource development. I would hope that the World Bank, which is out there now going through an assessment, that they would help determine what the most viable economic approaches will be.
Q: What would be the attitude and the response of the United States if there were independent bids, such as demands for referendums like those in East Timor from other provinces of Indonesia?
MS. TAFT: I think the history of East Timor was always different from the history of the rest of Indonesia. We are very encouraged that in the portfolio that Vice President Megawati will have is that she will be dealing with some of these difficult issues.
I think our sense is that it's in Indonesia's interest and well-being that they reach out to Aceh and Irian Jaya and some of the other places that have strong minority groups to establish systems that will embrace them politically and culturally. And I think that it's in Indonesia's interests to keep the rest of Indonesia together, and there is a lot of interest on the part of the international community to try to find ways to bring about reconciliation with the rest of Indonesia.
So we will have to see what the priorities of the government are and see how this evolves. But I do believe that East Timor historically was different from many of the other parts of Indonesia, and so we may be just seeing a special viable independence approach there that might no be applicable elsewhere.
Q: Thank you, Secretary Taft. I have two questions from the audience here -- it's Catherine McGrath back in Canberra. Two questions from Philip Goodwin, who is the assistant secretary of the humanitarian branch at the Department of Immigration here in Australia. The first question is: Do you have any views about the pace of repatriation from the East Timorese coming back from West Timor?
MS. TAFT: Well, it's slower than we hoped, mostly because it's been very difficult to get enough secure access on the part of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees into various camps in the Atembua region. I was very pleased, however, to find out that they are establishing a new ferry system from Atapupu, which is close by, and that this will be another way to get people out that are still in West Timor.
The other problem is that I don't think people are quite aware of the excitement that is going on in East Timor, I mean a return of so many of the religious and political leaders, the vibrancy of markets starting up again, of the presence of food and non-governmental organizations from your country and from all over. There is a lot going on in East Timor and a broader-based security arrangement. So I hope that there will be ways to get better access to the camps in West Timor so that the people will have a more informed impression of what's going on in East Timor and will be able to make a choice. They can't make a choice to go now if they don't know what is happening back home. So I think that the pace will pick up as soon as radio broadcasts and access is increased.
The other thing that I think is fair to say is that there were a number of people who voted not to have East Timor be independent from Indonesia. These people may not want to go back and they may well be in West Timor. It's very hard to judge what the number is. The estimate that I've heard is about 100,000 people in West Timor may choose not to go back to East Timor. So that presents a whole lot of other new challenges. I mean, where do they want to go and how do we help them get established in West Timor or other places in Indonesia? I think the international community stands ready to assist in their permanent resettlement in the NTT or other places. But the people there haven't made a choice yet, because they haven't had enough opportunity to know what the consequences of their choices would be -- whether to go home or to stay in West Timor.
So we are not really pleased at the rate of repatriation, but we are pleased that it started. And we think that the word will get out that those who want to go back home will find a safe and welcoming environment.
Q: And just a follow-up question to that. In the longer term, reconciliation will be an important part of effective reconstruction and nation-building. Do you have any views about how this issue should be pursued?
MS. TAFT: We have this as you know in so many different situations that have gone through trauma -- the trauma, the terror, the separation of families that have been created in the East Timor crisis have been really quite severe. So there will have to be a period of reconciliation.
The techniques that we fund and we seem to feel work start usually at the community level and the family level. We do a lot of programs for women for instance to help them regain their own sense of worth to the family and to the community. We do micro-credit programs, psycho-social programs. We also do a lot of family reunification programs. I think this is going to be very key, is to make sure that women who are separated from their husbands, and children from their families -- that is a high priority. So we have got to do the tracing, we have got to do community-based programs.
And then it's really important to start the process of letting the local people make decisions about the priorities -- you know, what do they want to grow, where do they want to grow it, what would they like to produce, what kind of government structures do they want? There needs to be an awful lot of consultation because they are going to be building their country from the ground up as an independent nation, and we have got to have a lot of people out there listening more than talking. And so I think the NGOs are going to do this. This is a real challenge that the U.N. through its Transitional Authority will have to have very broad-based consultation with these people.
Q: What further information do you have on the militia atrocities and reports of the Indonesian involvement in those? Will Mary Robinson's call for an investigation be proceeded with?
MS. TAFT: Well, yes. It is proceeding, and we are very much supportive of this international investigation. But we are also supportive of the Indonesian Human Rights Commission work on the same thing. It's very clear, and it has been made clear by Secretary Cohen and Secretary Albright and others, not just from the U.S. but internationally, that those who were responsible for the atrocities, those who were responsible for killing -- they will be brought to account.
I just found out that one of the big issues right now is how do we get forensic experts into East Timor to be able to do the documentation. And they are making arrangements for that now. What is almost more troublesome is what we don't know, and what we don't know is happening in Ambino. INTERFET just went in a few days ago and they found out that about 19 people had been killed just in the very recent previous few days. We don't know what else we are going to find there. It's really important that there be an investigation there.
And, again, let me just underscore that the need to be able to have access, full access to the camps in West Timor is essential, because that's where the militia are hiding right now. And we need to make sure that the TNI and the local police allow access by all humanitarian workers just to make sure that more atrocities are not occurring there.
Q: You, and I guess just about everybody else who has been to East Timor since the referendum, have been really shocked by the destruction there. The East Timorese are going to need a lot of help to rebuild their country. How do we encourage people in all our nations to think about East Timor and to contribute over the next sort of five or so years that that is going to take?
MS. TAFT: Well, I'm glad you said over the next five or so years, because I think sometimes we all get too impatient -- we think things have to be rebuilt immediately and everything has to be done overnight. It took a long time for East Timor to get to the way it is. In terms of some of the social issues they have and development problems and the destruction that occurred just in September is only the most visible part of it. There is going to have to be a lot of rebuilding.
Let me just say one area where I think we are going to have a real challenge, and that is in the human resource area. I was really quite shocked when I was there to see the physical destruction; but, more important, to hear what happened to the human resource infrastructure of East Timor. You know the people who left, who went to other parts of Indonesia, et cetera, many of them were the skilled people. And East Timor itself had very few East Timorese physicians for instance or teachers. And we have got a real challenge ahead of ourselves to make sure that a whole new generation of trained doctors and nurses and educators are able to be developed from this population. And I think this is a very, very high priority. It should be the top priority for the U.N., and of course we will be contributing toward that.
But it also is an opportunity I think for East Timor to attract some of the very talented people in the region, whether it's the Philippines, from your country, from New Zealand, from Papua New Guinea, other places -- have some very skilled people who might be able to be brought in to help launch these kinds of programs. But I think building the human resources is going to be almost more important than the physical resources.
Q: Ms. Taft, you mentioned yourself that the geography and political make-up of East Timor is not greatly known or understood in the U.S. How much of an appetite is there in the U.S. do you think amongst the voters there, among the general community, to financially support East Timor? And what is the position of Congress on delivering the very urgent dollars that are needed?
MS. TAFT: Well, you are asking this question at a very difficult time, because we are in the process of negotiating with Congress the budget for the State Department and for our Agency for International Development. And we are having a very difficult time convincing Congress to give us the resources we need so we can make sustained contributions.
I think it's not a question of appetite and whether East Timor is so far away. I think we are very committed. We are always very committed to the whole Asian bloc. And we are going to stay over the long run.
Now, what kind of particular direct assistance we can give to East Timor right now will be through our general contributions to the United Nations, but also through programs such as mine which will be funding humanitarian issues over the next year or so. Already the U.S. has put in about $21 million in cash. We are making our contributions for food. We will be deciding over the next several days how we can put in tens of millions of dollars more. So we are there with you.
We are very pleased actually with the leadership of the countries in the region -- Thailand, Japan, the Philippines, Australia, New Zealand -- so many are coming forward, and we are going to do this with you. And I just hope that Congress gives us enough money to make the kind of impact that I know you are hoping we can make.
Q: A follow-up on that question. For New Zealand and Australia it's important because it's so close, and at the moment East Timor is sort of benefiting from the CNN effect. But how do we keep that momentum going when we move on to the next crisis in Africa or somewhere?
MS. TAFT: Well, I wish I had the answer to that. I think the only thing we can do is to continue to speak with each other and to speak with the media and to talk about stories of things that are working. I have a very difficult time since we deal with humanitarian crises worldwide. When Kosovo was getting all the attention, we were also trying to get cameras to other parts -- as you say, in Africa and elsewhere. It is very hard.
The CNN factor is very strong. The media approach is very strong. And we are just going to have to find ways to counteract that. And I think one of the ways is to get parliamentarians to go from our various countries and visit these places, to encourage the media to go, and to work very much with the non-governmental organizations, because at least in our country and I know in yours, the NGOs have a very strong constituency in our country. And when they go and they're helping and they report back to their communities in the United States about what is happening, what's important, how we ought to stay and assist these people, that resonates very well. And so I think a broad base of involvement of NGOs is really another way to go about this.
Q: Ms. Taft, we have heard a lot in Australia about cooperation between Australia and the U.S. on this whole issue. But can you outline a little bit of the interaction the U.S. has had with other ASEAN countries? Now, there has been a broad range of responses in ASEAN, from Malaysia who has been quite critical of elements of INTERFET, and also has indicated it wants to lead the military component under the U.N. banner; and there's been strong responses in Thailand and the Philippines, very supportive obviously of Australia's role. Can you outline the varied opinions as you see it within ASEAN, and particularly the responses of Singapore and Malaysia, who are so close geographically to Indonesia?
MS. TAFT: Well, I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment. My brief is humanitarian, and I don't get involved in the bilateral relationships of Singapore with Indonesia or Singapore and the United States. I can say, however, that the U.S. is maintaining a very strong and close relationship urging all the countries to be supportive. We have been flying in people to serve on INTERFET. We have forces with INTERFET. We have been very encouraging of other countries to come forward. It is my understanding that Australia is pleased with the role the U.S. has played. And we want to continue that.
On the humanitarian side, we have been also working on mobilizing donor support, and we think that the Asians are coming through very nicely.
So I am not sure how you all see it out there. What we see here and from the U.N. in New York is that there is a lot of solidarity throughout not just the Security Council but the whole U.N. mechanism to try to make the new peacekeeping force viable, to support the new Transitional Administration with one of the finest administrators I know -- Sergio de Mello. We are going to be supporting that.
So I think if you feel like you are out there by yourself -- you are not. There is a whole world that is working to focus attention to make this happen.
Q: Ma'am, how long do you think it will be before you will be able to get any of your congressmen to visit Dili? Do any want to go?
MS. TAFT: Oh, yes, actually we have quite a few who want to go, and as soon as they give us enough money through our budget and they can go on recess I am sure you are going to see quite a few delegations go out there.
MS. LILLY: Thank you, Wellington and Canberra. Now we would like to join ABS-CBN News Channel in Manila. Welcome to Worldnet's "Dialogue."
Q: Thank you. Ms. Taft, last Monday the U.N. Security Council adopted a resolution creating the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor. Perhaps you could tell us exactly when this will take place.
MS. TAFT: Well, it's already been approved and the administrator is planning to go out probably in early November. It's Sergio de Mello, who is now the undersecretary general for humanitarian affairs. And it is launched.
But let me say how delighted I am that Philippines could be a part of this program. We have been very pleased to recognize the really strong contribution that you all have made, not only to INTERFET but the humanitarian relief effort. I think the government of the Philippines, President Estrada, has been out front in all efforts to ensure the regional stability, and we have been very pleased with how forthcoming he and you all have been to assist the Timorese people.
If I may just single out the fine work of the Philippine Committee on Humanitarian Assistance and Joe Conception --just terrific raising funds for medical assistance and getting people out there. This is the kind of solidarity and humanitarian outreach that we have been really pleased to see, and it makes me extra happy not only to thank you but to be here and see if I can answer any of your questions.
Q: Know that the pleasure is ours. And also we would like to inform you that Mr. Joe Conception is actually right here with us to listen.
MS. TAFT: Great. Well, hello, Mr. Conception.
Q: We know that the U.N. body will take over the international peacekeeping force led by Australia. We would like to know what the U.S. participation will be here.
MS. TAFT: Well, I don't think those details have been worked out. We are going to be participating as best we can. Let me just point out that there will be 1,640 police that are going to be funded through this and over 9,000 peacekeepers, plus hundreds of civilian administrators. This is going to be a major investment, funding investment as well as human resource investment, and we are going to be making our appropriate contribution.
I think from the human resource side I would like to say that I hope that Manila, the authorities in Manila, will be working very closely with the U.N. to identify some Filipino talents to be in the civilian administration. You've got extraordinarily well educated people and they are going to be looking for some good talent, and we hope that you will be particularly participating in that yourself.
Q: Could I have your comment on speculations that Indonesia's independence has been compromised with the intervention of the United Nations?
MS. TAFT: I think Indonesia is getting on with its life. They have done a couple of very dramatic things in the last recent weeks that show that it is a mature country. They have had their first very dramatic election and the new president has established a very broad-based cabinet. And it's been very sensitive to all of the different constituencies. And that seems to be quite interesting and we are supportive of that.
The other thing is that for the first time a civilian has been placed as the minister of defense. This of course we have in our country, and we think it's the right way to go to keep civilian leadership with the military. But this is something that has been done very dramatically.
We also know that the president, Gus Dur, is working very hard to heal the wounds that have been created, and he is doing major outreach in his country and with his neighbors. So I think we are optimistic.
Q: All right, you mentioned the election of Abdurrahman Wahid as president and of course Megawati Sukarnoputri as vice president of Indonesia. How optimistic are you that the two can work as a team that can unify a nation deeply divided over the East Timor crisis?
MS. TAFT: I think that they will be able to work together. The division on the East Timor crisis is past. The assembly decided to acknowledge and respect that independence. What Indonesia needs to do now is work on Indonesia and make sure that all of the various parts of Indonesia are brought together in solidarity to go forward with their own issues and not worry about East Timor.
Q: Well, Ms. Taft, may we know when you were last in East Timor, so perhaps you can give us a first-hand account of the situation there?
MS. TAFT: I was there in September, for about a week, about September the 20th to the 27th. And I was in Jakarta and in Kupang, Timbua and Dili.
Q: How is the repatriation of refugees going?
MS. TAFT: So far about 20,000 have gone back. About 6,- or 7,000 of those are people who either were pushed off or self-evacuated to other parts of Indonesia, and we have been funding their flights back to Dili. There are ferry boats and planes that are going regularly from West Timor to East Timor. The total number in the last 10 days or so of people who have gone back is about 20,000. We hope the pace will be much higher soon.
Q: And this is done on a daily basis, ships and planes flying refugees from West to East Timor?
MS. TAFT: That is right.
Q: Ms. Taft, many East Timorese are still afraid to go back to Dili. Was there a time when the U.S. government helped or offered to accommodate the refugees to migrate to the United States?
MS. TAFT: At one point there were discussions about whether or not people should be resettled in a third country -- this was in early September. And our position was if the United Nations High Commissioner recommended that there be an international resettlement program, we would participate as we always do. But it was quite clear all along that because East Timor was eventually going to be independent that people would want to go home and rebuild their country and not to take them so far away from the region. So we then said, well, if they stay in the region we can help fund it, but we stand ready if they need to be resettled outside. That hasn't come to pass. They don't need to be resettled outside.
Our challenge collectively right now is making sure that the people, particularly in West Timor, get information about what is happening in East Timor and how safe it is for them to go back and the fact that there is assistance available there. This has not been possible because there has been so little access by humanitarian workers to the various camps in West Timor. And we are pushing that issue very hard with the government.
Q: Ms. Taft, you did mention that you were there between September 20th and September 27th. During that time what programs were being set up or what programs were ongoing to help East Timorese in rebuilding their lives?
MS. TAFT: Well, actually I got to East Timor two days after INTERFET showed up, and the U.N. agencies were there but the NGOs were not operating on the ground at that time, with the exception of the International Committee of the Red Cross that was running the central hospital. Since then it's been burgeoning with NGOs. World Food Program has regular food distributions. There are shelter activities going on. There is a lot of access and convoys out throughout East Timor. So a lot is happening now that didn't exist when I was there in September.
Q: Well, the Philippines is a Catholic-dominated country. I would like to ask what the role is of the Catholic Church, what role they are playing in the East Timor crisis. There is some sort of religious persecution in East Timor. I believe that a couple of -- maybe a month ago a Filipino priest recently ordained was also killed in East Timor. He was doing missionary work there. How safe are our missionaries there now?
MS. TAFT: I think that where INTERFET is present they are safe. And for everyone who has been victimized by the militia, they need to be routed out and brought to justice.
With regard to particular vulnerabilities, I think as I say the security framework from INTERFET is good and getting better all the time.
With regard to the Catholic Church, not only in East Timor but also in West Timor they are going to play an incredibly important role -- not only in terms of material assistance and the distribution of donations that are going to be coming in from abroad, but also in the reconciliation and helping people come to grips with what has happened to them and their families. So that's going to be very important.
In West Timor it's the churches that have been doing a fabulous job of providing assistance. Most of the people in West Timor, including the government of West Timor, has been very good about trying to provide material assistance. The Catholic Church there has also been heavily involved in providing sanctuary and aid. So I think it be a very important element of how East Timor is going to rebuild itself is the role of the church and other elements of civil society.
Q: I would like to ask you about the Philippine contingent. How are they now? Was there even a chance for you to meet them personally?
MS. TAFT: I am sorry, I didn't have a chance to meet them, but I have been hearing about them and very good things about them. I did have a chance to meet with some of the Philippine health workers that were in West Timor, and I think this is great. I just feel that you are out participating in really a historic event in Asia, and you are doing it wonderfully well, from the private sector, from the government sector and from your military, and we all are grateful that there is this kind of solidarity.
MS. LILLY: We have time for one more short question and a short answer. Go ahead please.
Q: Ms. Taft, the Philippines is considering to send additional troops to East Timor. Of course a senator is opposed to that, seeing that there are internal problems in our country. How important is it for the Philippines to send an additional contingent to East Timor?
MS. TAFT: I think that what's important is for all of us to show solidarity with East Timor as best we can and to participate on the international peacekeeping as best we can. I would encourage Manila and the Philippines to expand their presence. They have done a great job so far. This is an important time to show the international character and commitment of the Philippines, and we hope that you will participate even more if you can. Thank you.
MS. LILLY: And with that I am afraid our discussion must come to an end. Our thanks to the Manila ABS-CBN Television News, that is Pinkie Webb, our participants in Canberra and Wellington, who were Catherine McGrath and Kathy Bell. Thank you for joining us today. A special thanks to the Assistant Secretary Julia Taft.
From Washington, I'm Judlyn Lilly for Worldnet's "Dialogue." Good day.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State)
Return to U.S. Support for Democracy and Human Rights in Indonesia and East Timor.Return to IIP Home Page.